Norman Fucking Rockwell - Post-Release Discussion Thread + Poll

[Flowerbomb 65,594]

GRIMES: I actually think there was an earthquake yesterday. But earthquakes are fun. All natural disasters are fun in the abstract.

 

 

what kinda drugs has Elon given her?

[GeminiLanaFan 49,048]

I get that we all have our own taste and prefer certain albums over others, and I certainly don't always agree with critics, but to see NFR as boring and badly produced, I mean... The critical acclaim has just exploded, with the end-of-year reviews. It truly is her magnum opus, at least in the public sphere. 

I took a short break from it, over the last weeks, but came back to it this week. And man! What an album to come back to!
The high notes of the title track just haunt me. Venice Bitch still transcends me when I drive (that progression!!!). I am tired as fuck, so The Greatest is just the most empowering song about depression ever. And California?!? It's the prayer I'm singing myself and my BF, who is just as tired as I am. Bartender just calms me down so much. Hope is just so heartbreaking in the winter. And when she sings «My baby used to dance underneath my architecture», I just can't help but fall in love with this song all over again. 

[UltraHeroin 8,803]

I get that we all have our own taste and prefer certain albums over others, and I certainly don't always agree with critics, but to see NFR as boring and badly produced, I mean... The critical acclaim has just exploded, with the end-of-year reviews. It truly is her magnum opus, at least in the public sphere. 

 

I took a short break from it, over the last weeks, but came back to it this week. And man! What an album to come back to!

The high notes of the title track just haunt me. Venice Bitch still transcends me when I drive (that progression!!!). I am tired as fuck, so The Greatest is just the most empowering song about depression ever. And California?!? It's the prayer I'm singing myself and my BF, who is just as tired as I am. Bartender just calms me down so much. Hope is just so heartbreaking in the winter. And when she sings «My baby used to dance underneath my architecture», I just can't help but fall in love with this song all over again. 

This is it. This is THE POST 

[daphnedinkley 13,487]

i definitely have my problems with NFR, but i still love it. honestly i just had such a moment with FIILY and Venice Bitch - in fact, i can honestly say i've had a "moment" with every song on this album where they just really HIT ME in a particular way, even the songs i'm not massively keen on like TNBAR and California. moments where the song just speaks to me in a completely new and transcendent way. maybe it relates to the seasons changing, my emotions changing, the state of mind i'm in, i dunno. either way it's a wonderful feeling. the only song i haven't had a moment with yet is Love Song.

[Dark Angel 202,389]

California remains the best song on this album.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,740]

I get that we all have our own taste and prefer certain albums over others, and I certainly don't always agree with critics, but to see NFR as boring and badly produced, I mean... The critical acclaim has just exploded, with the end-of-year reviews. It truly is her magnum opus, at least in the public sphere.

 

Can we not do that thing (again) where we try to masquerade opinions as facts, though? That has happened so much on this thread.

 

We've established that the critical acclaim needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because these are the same critics who said all of her pre LFL albums were trash. Most of us wouldn't be here if we agreed with them.

 

If you like it, you like it, and if you don't, you don't. It's in the eye ear of the beholder.

[movebaby 5,379]

venice bitch > california 

 

change my mind

[West Coast 45,795]

I get that we all have our own taste and prefer certain albums over others, and I certainly don't always agree with critics, but to see NFR as boring and badly produced, I mean... The critical acclaim has just exploded, with the end-of-year reviews. It truly is her magnum opus, at least in the public sphere. 

 

I took a short break from it, over the last weeks, but came back to it this week. And man! What an album to come back to!

The high notes of the title track just haunt me. Venice Bitch still transcends me when I drive (that progression!!!). I am tired as fuck, so The Greatest is just the most empowering song about depression ever. And California?!? It's the prayer I'm singing myself and my BF, who is just as tired as I am. Bartender just calms me down so much. Hope is just so heartbreaking in the winter. And when she sings «My baby used to dance underneath my architecture», I just can't help but fall in love with this song all over again. 

 

My only problem with this outpouring of praise for this album from critics is that it's very dishonest for us fans to accept their opinions as facts when all these years Lana had been had the receiving end of so much negativity from her image/public perception to her performances, which definitely transpired through the criticism of her albums. As fans we are doing ourselves a disservice to actually be like "oh look critics finally acknowledged Lana's talent on this album" and use that as facts for the album so called 'greatness'. Well that's bullshit.

 

Using critics that have relentlessly bashed and hate on Lana since she first hit the scene as Lana Del Rey, as creds to impose your views on this album is not only dishonest, but laughable. I'm honestly sure I can find negative critiques or thinkpieces about Lana's first three albums that were written by the very same critics that now revere her as the second coming over Christ. Critics echo one another, and this happen to be Lana's most tamed and sterile album, on which she definitely stripped away the "Del Rey" persona aspect of her music, or any "drama" for that matter. Of course they are going to praise it, they didn't like what she had to offer to begin with. 

 

Not saying that this is what you're doing, but coming here and copy-pasting these critiques/year end lists excerpts as proof of this album's alleged superiority is just deceiving and not representative of the reality. You said it yourself, I personally see NFR as being badly produced and mastered, and somewhat weak lyrically... I'm a fan, I've been into her music for seven years I listen to her albums countless times. I don't just listen to the album two or three times, write a couple paragraphs and call it a day. That's why there's an immense difference between a fan and a critic. Of course I'm going to be more 'picky' and pinpoint things that critics won't really think about (going back to the production and mastering).

 

I'm going to let you decide which one you think is more worthwhile down the line. Critics don't make artists' longevity, fans do.

[GeminiLanaFan 49,048]

I see the praise she is receiving these days as « the critics finally caught up to what we already know », in most cases. The tide began shifting for some with UV, but mostly with HM and LFL. They were finally « getting her ». I get the criticisms she received when she first came out, with BTD: she was an alien and one that was so different from the others that they questioned if she was legit (harshly so). The acclaim for NFR just makes me happy that they finally recognize her talent.

[West Coast 45,795]

I see the praise she is receiving these days as « the critics finally caught up to what we already know », in most cases. The tide began shifting for some with UV, but mostly with HM and LFL. They were finally « getting her ». I get the criticisms she received when she first came out, with BTD: she was an alien and one that was so different from the others that they questioned if she was legit (harshly so). The acclaim for NFR just makes me happy that they finally recognize her talent.

 

I mean I definitely agree with you about Lana finally being recognized for her talent. But I don't see how just because she was different than other "pop" girls when she first came in that she deserved to be treated like an alien. But also, the criticism targeting her extended much farther than "criticizing" an album, it was very rough and not justifiable. For years (and to some she still is) was considered that rich untalented girl that got a music contract because of her father.

 

I just wish she had received that level of praise when she was not as "beige" or tamed if you will. But to each their own.

 

I agree that there has been a shift around the release of UV, and then with HM and LFL. After each album there have been fans not happy with the direction she took, which is normal I guess. I personally have experienced a shift after she released LFL. I see NFR as being superior to it in many regards, but I still find it to be subpar and not as intricate or interesting as her first three records.

I don't really care how much critics are eating shit up over it, it remains the same lackluster album to me. Agree to disagree. 

[Jared 3,131]

A reminder that ''Critics said all of Lana's albums pre-NFR/LFL were trash and are only giving NFR a rave reviews because they feel like they owe it to her/ have only now caught up to her genius'' is a propaganda parroted by very bitter people who can't accept the fact that Lana is maturing and doing new things. This is simply their way of projecting their insecurities (about not liking the album) onto people who are enjoying the album. That's why they lose their shit every time someone post something positive about the album, like me posting that amazing, year-end write-up.

 
Not gonna lie though. I'm definitely entertained watching the same 3 people losing their mind over and over again and posting the same shit since the late August. It's like watching someone beat their head against the wall over and over again for 3 months. It must be driving them insane knowing, that no matter how many times they spam the same and very shallow talking points, they can't change the general consensus and legacy of the album. 

 

Oh, and once again, speaking of critics trashing Lana's albums pre-NFR/LFL:

 

 

[movebaby 5,379]

very bitter people 

 

lose their shit 

 

losing their mind over and over again 

 

like watching someone beat their head against the wall over and over again 

 

It must be driving them insane 

 

dude i think you're wayyy overestimating how much anyone actually cares

[West Coast 45,795]

Oh poor Jared. Must be sad to come here and actually see that people are discussing the album and everything Lana from their personal perspective. On the other hand, your only contribution to this community is copy-pasting the circlejerky articles about NFR and trying to pass those as facts, all the while re-posting the same gifs over and over again.

 

Bold of you to assume that NFR will have the same cultural impact or longevity as Lana's previous albums too, last time I checked Born To Die was actually charting way higher than NFR, I guess that doesn't count, right? I don't see why us questioning the legitimacy of bitter critics that up until LFL had nothing but bullshit to write about Lana, now making a 180 turn to kiss her butt, is considered annoying or repetitive, while you only come here to quote those same sucky critics/reviews?

 

Get over your sensitive self Jack, I mean Jared. Not every single fan on this forum will have the same level of appreciation for this record as you and other fans do. No one is losing their shit over this, but you.

[Foxglove 2,266]

i like NFR, i did and i do.  it's good, it's cute, it's accessible, it has brief glimpses of meaning and lucidity regarding an extremely disorienting modern world.  it is Lana, for sure.  no one else could have made this album.  to be fair tho, to me, it's very clear that Lana lacked inspiration going into this album - something she freely admitted.  Lana herself talked about having writer's block, being inspired by Jacking Off's chord progressions and writing melodies, etc etc.  That is something that I think definitely comes through in NFR.  Being so invested in her earlier work which was so imbued with potency and necessity, like Lana saying "i had to make these albums" - NFR is not that.  it's good, yes.  but it's dull-er than her previous work.  it lacks the umph of her first three albums.  it doesnt have that je ne sais quoi that Lana's early work had heavy in spades.

 

so can we be honest... is this really her best work?  i see all the people claiming this as her "magnum opus" or "masterpiece" which is like... did you not listen to Honeymoon?  Ultraviolence?  NFR doesn't even make sense without the context of Lana's past work.  If NFR was her first album, it would've gotten panned af.  the only reason people are paying so much attention to it is because we know what Lana has done and is capable of.  NFR is her most basic album.  and i'm not even saying that as a bad thing, i just really think it is.  and that's a whole vibe or whatever.  it feels like she's dumbing herself down for a broader audience.  it feels like she's trying to assimilate into celeb culture and whatever.  which is fine.  it's her art, it's her life.  and i like it.  i still listen occasionally.  but masterpiece?  i think that time is past.

 

maybe i am being too subjective, but idk.  With her first three albums, i felt something so strong.  a sense of urgency, desperation, stifled power, hopelessness as art, hopelessness as the essence of freedom, truth, iconography, apathy as self-protection, caring as a personal failure that was yet so necessary and unavoidable, SOMETHING powerful and mysterious and important that couldn't be fully described.  NFR feels like taking all that and stripping of it of substance and regurgitating it as pure aesthetic bc she knows that's what worked for her in the past.

 

when Lana was Lizzy, she wasn't successful or known.  She didn't have accolades or a huge following or worldwide fame and recognition.  but she had spirit and drive, she KNEW what she was doing was good and meaningful and mattered.  and we can all hear and feel that in her unreleased music.  i remember listening to her unreleased stuff after Born to Die came out and being like "damn this bitch is a for real star and a musical genius, she has such potency and magic, she is so much more for believing in herself without any recognition."  it was a whole thing.

 

NFR is like, when you get everything you ever wanted and lose what made you get it in the first place.  that's what it feels like to me.  which is a whole vibe.  it might be her most depressing album because of that, which is powerful in its own way.  it feels like Lana losing herself.  being burnt out.  i appreciate NFR, i really do.  and i think there's meaning in seeing how it fits into her body of work.  but i think it only packs a kick because of its relation to her past work, because we see the growth and change Lana has gone through.  and that, to me, means it cant possibly be her best, most potent, "masterpiece" or "magnum opus".  i love her art, and i love her as an artist.  but not as much anymore.  i think she lost something, and i think NFR is proof of that.  i think the accolades and critical raving about NFR is proof of that.  she's not an underground underdog rock star heroine enigma.  she's a pop star.  a regular person.  good for her, if that's what she wants.  but she doesnt have the power i felt in her first three albums.  the experiences she went through before she was a bonafide star are more potent than whatever's happening now.  maybe that's proof of what i always saw as her original point ----- you may get everything you want, and it'll still be hollow because what the world sees as success is bullshit, what society idolizes is trash, and what really matters gets ignored and forgotten.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,740]

Run along, @Jared. The adults are having a conversation. 

[West Coast 45,795]

i like NFR, i did and i do.  it's good, it's cute, it's accessible, it has brief glimpses of meaning and lucidity regarding an extremely disorienting modern world.  it is Lana, for sure.  no one else could have made this album.  to be fair tho, to me, it's very clear that Lana lacked inspiration going into this album - something she freely admitted.  Lana herself talked about having writer's block, being inspired by Jacking Off's chord progressions and writing melodies, etc etc.  That is something that I think definitely comes through in NFR.  Being so invested in her earlier work which was so imbued with potency and necessity, like Lana saying "i had to make these albums" - NFR is not that.  it's good, yes.  but it's dull-er than her previous work.  it lacks the umph of her first three albums.  it doesnt have that je ne sais quoi that Lana's early work had heavy in spades.

 

so can we be honest... is this really her best work?  i see all the people claiming this as her "magnum opus" or "masterpiece" which is like... did you not listen to Honeymoon?  Ultraviolence?  NFR doesn't even make sense without the context of Lana's past work.  If NFR was her first album, it would've gotten panned af.  the only reason people are paying so much attention to it is because we know what Lana has done and is capable of.  NFR is her most basic album.  and i'm not even saying that as a bad thing, i just really think it is.  and that's a whole vibe or whatever.  it feels like she's dumbing herself down for a broader audience.  it feels like she's trying to assimilate into celeb culture and whatever.  which is fine.  it's her art, it's her life.  and i like it.  i still listen occasionally.  but masterpiece?  i think that time is past.

 

maybe i am being too subjective, but idk.  With her first three albums, i felt something so strong.  a sense of urgency, desperation, stifled power, hopelessness as art, hopelessness as the essence of freedom, truth, iconography, apathy as self-protection, caring as a personal failure that was yet so necessary and unavoidable, SOMETHING powerful and mysterious and important that couldn't be fully described.  NFR feels like taking all that and stripping of it of substance and regurgitating it as pure aesthetic bc she knows that's what worked for her in the past.

 

when Lana was Lizzy, she wasn't successful or known.  She didn't have accolades or a huge following or worldwide fame and recognition.  but she had spirit and drive, she KNEW what she was doing was good and meaningful and mattered.  and we can all hear and feel that in her unreleased music.  i remember listening to her unreleased stuff after Born to Die came out and being like "damn this bitch is a for real star and a musical genius, she has such potency and magic, she is so much more for believing in herself without any recognition."  it was a whole thing.

 

NFR is like, when you get everything you ever wanted and lose what made you get it in the first place.  that's what it feels like to me.  which is a whole vibe.  it might be her most depressing album because of that, which is powerful in its own way.  it feels like Lana losing herself.  being burnt out.  i appreciate NFR, i really do.  and i think there's meaning in seeing how it fits into her body of work.  but i think it only packs a kick because of its relation to her past work, because we see the growth and change Lana has gone through.  and that, to me, means it cant possibly be her best, most potent, "masterpiece" or "magnum opus".  i love her art, and i love her as an artist.  but not as much anymore.  i think she lost something, and i think NFR is proof of that.  i think the accolades and critical raving about NFR is proof of that.  she's not an underground underdog rock star heroine enigma.  she's a pop star.  a regular person.  good for her, if that's what she wants.  but she doesnt have the power i felt in her first three albums.  the experiences she went through before she was a bonafide star are more potent than whatever's happening now.  maybe that's proof of what i always saw as her original point ----- you may get everything you want, and it'll still be hollow because what the world sees as success is bullshit, what society idolizes is trash, and what really matters gets ignored and forgotten.

 

This comment is honestly much more interesting, introspective and nuanced than any review, critique or thinkpieces I've read about NFR or Lana these past couple months. Thank you so much for your contribution! 

[Jared 3,131]

Every time I visit this board, it's the same 3 people stuck here posting the very same, shallow and negative thing about the album and producer they posted a day, week, months ago. But no one is losing their shit. 

 

Old Lana is not coming back. Cheers to that. 

 

[West Coast 45,795]

Oof I don't even know how to adress it? We are a fair few that come here and express our thoughts about NFR. 3 isn't so accurate? I'd say around 10-12-ish maybe? On the other hand, coming here and seeing that some user (in that case one in particular) keeps quoting articles he wish he could've written, basically regurgitating other people's thoughts ad nauseam, which couldn't be more ironic. 

 

If your only contribution to a forum it copy-pasting what other people are saying about something in particular and try to pass this as facts. I don't think you have much room to talk about other people's comments or input when you don't have much original thought to throw in the ring yourself. Oh well. 

[Foxglove 2,266]

Every time I visit this board, it's the same 3 people stuck here posting the very same, shallow and negative thing about the album and producer they posted a day, week, months ago. But no one is losing their shit. 

 

Old Lana is not coming back. Cheers to that. 

 

this is how quickly the hype for Norman fucking Rockwell! died

[Jared 3,131]

I have posted my thoughts on the album a while ago. I'm sorry if me doing something so simple as posting news and accolades the album is receiving is so upsetting and traumatic for some members.