Vertimus

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

Thanks and cheers to Elle and the moderators for all their good work last night. 

Very well expressed. I agree. 

I felt and feel the same way. Once she lost BAMP and AA, I knew she would lose everything else. 
 
The way the Grammy judges probably see it, when Lana is old and grey and needs to sit, like Joni Mitchell, then they'll give Lana her revolving chair, bad lighting, and an excruciatingly over-the-top introduction like Mitchell received last night. 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

Very well expressed. I agree. 

I felt and feel the same way. Once she lost BAMP and AA, I knew she would lose everything else. 
 
The way the Grammy judges probably see it, when Lana is old and grey and needs to sit, like Joni Mitchell, then they'll give Lana her revolving chair, bad lighting, and an excruciatingly over-the-top introduction like Mitchell received last night. 

I also think Taylor was being sincere. But I wouldn't call either a legacy artist. In what sense is Taylor a legacy artist at this point in her life and career? 
 
Poor Lana was clearly of two minds about joining her on the stage.
 
What I would have liked to have seen is Taylor say, "Thanks to you, Academy and judges, and thanks to everyone who helped me achieve this and record the album, but this award should have gone to this individual right here, Lana Del Rey." 

Very well expressed. I agree. 

I think a lot of what is liked and voted for by the judges is liked conceptually rather than musically. 
 
As in, 'Wow, boygenius, a super-group of assertive Indie women who are presently obscure, banding together and taking a clever gender-twisting name--and one or two might be lesbian or bi-!! I want to appear as if I'm hip to that."
 
In the distant past, I remember Beck and the Scottish band Teenage Fanclub being given the same sort of attention and love, though no one had heard of either at the time--except Yoko Ono!
 
Extroverts very quickly learn on which bandwagon to jump. And Teenage Fanclub's album was called Bangwagonesque to make it all the more ironic. 
 
Everyone keep in mind Edina in AbFab running around the award show floor with Bubble, desperately saying, "What's the buzz, the buzz, what's the buzz? What's new and different?" 

I agree. There are too many categories; they want to recognize everyone and everything under the sun, which is more virtue signally on a grand scale that bores everyone and seems absurd. "Best Mastering,  Cajun Album." Please. There's no reason the Grammys have to be global in reach, even if they chose to recognize artists from all parts of the planet. 
 
They should condense it to 16 easily understood categories, period. All this 'Songwriter Song of the Year' vs. 'Song of the Year' is bullshit. 
 
But the problem of favoritism, popularity, or commerce ---the Taylor juggernaut--or "we've voted for too many White artists already," or "we've voted for too many male Black artists, we've got to change something" is more bullshit. 
 
Votes should be cast blind, and the music should be considered on an Art for Art's Sake basis. None of the judges should know the results until they hear them during the presentation. 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

And let's not forget a key line from OB: "I know, I know that you hate me." 
 
Lana is Cinderella and will win in the end.
 
She's already winning artistically--do we hear artists and legends like Joan Baez and Bruce Springsteen, like Stevie Nicks, the Weeknd, and Courtney Love praising Taylor, Billie, et al? These artists didn't praise Lana when it was convenient and advantageous to do so, in front of a massive industry audience, but from their homes, from the studio, from the road. 
 
I'm very happy Taylor praised Lana but calling her a "legacy artist" or whatever she said exactly makes Lana sound like she's been performing as Lana Del Rey for 30 years instead of 12. Lana isn't even 40 yet. She's not Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. She and Taylor are only 4 years apart in age. 

Very well expressed. I agree. 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

Very well expressed. I agree. 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. 
 
No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. 
 
It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. 
 
Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. 
 
Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. 
 
As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb." 

I also think Taylor was being sincere. But I wouldn't call either a legacy artist. In what sense is Taylor a legacy artist at this point in her life and career? 
 
Poor Lana was clearly of two minds about joining her on the stage.
 
What I would have liked to have seen is Taylor say, "Thanks to you, Academy and judges, and thanks to everyone who helped me achieve this and record the album, but this award should have gone to this individual right here, Lana Del Rey." 

And let's not forget a key line from OB: "I know, I know that you hate me." 
 
Lana is Cinderella and will win in the end.
 
She's already winning artistically--do we hear artists and legends like Joan Baez and Bruce Springsteen, like Stevie Nicks, the Weeknd, and Courtney Love praising Taylor, Billie, et al? These artists didn't praise Lana when it was convenient and advantageous to do so, in front of a massive industry audience, but from their homes, from the studio, from the road. 
 
I'm very happy Taylor praised Lana but calling her a "legacy artist" or whatever she said exactly makes Lana sound like she's been performing as Lana Del Rey for 30 years instead of 12. Lana isn't even 40 yet. She's not Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. She and Taylor are only 4 years apart in age. 

And let's not forget a key line from OB: "I know, I know that you hate me." 
 
Lana is Cinderella and will win in the end.
 
She's already winning artistically--do we hear artists and legends like Joan Baez and Bruce Springsteen, like Stevie Nicks, the Weeknd, and Courtney Love praising Taylor, Billie, et al? These artists didn't praise Lana when it was convenient and advantageous to do so, in front of a massive industry audience, but from their homes, from the studio, from the road. 
 
I'm very happy Taylor praised Lana but calling her a "legacy artist" or whatever she said exactly makes Lana sound like she's been performing as Lana Del Rey for 30 years instead of 12. Lana isn't even 40 yet. She's not Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. She and Taylor are only 4 years apart in age. 

I felt and feel the same way. Once she lost BAMP and AA, I knew she would lose everything else. 
 
The way the Grammy judges probably see it, when Lana is old and grey and needs to sit, like Joni Mitchell, then they'll give Lana her revolving chair, bad lighting, and an excruciatingly over-the-top introduction like Mitchell received last night. 

I think a lot of what is liked and voted for by the judges is liked conceptually rather than musically. 
 
As in, 'Wow, boygenius, a super-group of assertive Indie women who are presently obscure, banding together and taking a clever gender-twisting name--and one or two might be lesbian or bi-!! I want to appear as if I'm hip to that."
 
In the distant past, I remember Beck and the Scottish band Teenage Fanclub being given the same sort of attention and love, though no one had heard of either at the time--except Yoko Ono!
 
Extroverts very quickly learn on which bandwagon to jump. And Teenage Fanclub's album was called Bangwagonesque to make it all the more ironic. 
 
Everyone keep in mind Edina in AbFab running around the award show floor with Bubble, desperately saying, "What's the buzz, the buzz, what's the buzz? What's new and different?" 

Thanks and cheers to Elle and the moderators for all their good work last night.