Monicker

Don’t know if this is exactly thread worthy and how much discussion it can really spur, but i thought it was worth sharing. Maybe we can just use this thread to collect the more interesting (positive!) opinions on Lana from non-celebrities from unlikely places? God, that’s a mouthful (i kind of feel like LDR crusader Love Lana Like Life right now). 
 
Anyway, i’m always interested in seeing how things that i’m really into are evaluated by those from other corners of the universe. I just think it’s fascinating to get the perspective of people who aren’t so on the inside like us obsessed freaks. I think it’s easy sometimes to forget about the more "casual" listener’s views. The subject of Lana in particular is of interest to me in this context because it still puzzles me how she seems to have totally eluded a less pop-culture-oriented audience. So when i see someone who's coming from another part of the music world and they “get” it, the geek in me gets excited. 
 
Anyway, the point to all of this is that i was on the Beach Boys messageboard when, to my delight, i see the name Lana Del Rey suddenly pop up. What was interesting to me was to see BTD’s production described in a way i’ve never heard before. I'll use spoilers because this is getting long. 
 
 
 

I don't know about her (or you guys), but filling out the MySpace info with absolute bullshit was a thing. At least i thought that's what a lot of people did? I certainly was not truthful about any of the info on my profile. Then Facebook came along and it was time to get SERIOUS. 

Oh my god, this is the first time she mentions any specifics on the Beach Boys.
 
 
 I knew it. I’m telling you, her favorite Doors song is Light My Fire.  

Yeah, they sound like they’re from roughly the same period, but no two recordings share such exact sonic characteristics as Axl Rose and Elvis do.
 
Question just to be absolutely sure here: Is the consensus that Sirens comprises her very first (known) recordings? Also, what’s the consensus on its year of "release"?
 
 
I don't know, i’ve been thinking about all of this more since my last post a few days ago, and now i’m just confused. I mainly got into this discussion because of the comment that ARH and Elvis are way advanced compared to Sirens, which got me thinking about the progression of her guitar playing. I am not infallible and am by no means any sort of music authority. I will keep listening and comparing this stuff with everyone’s considerations in mind. I concede that she sounds younger in her singing on Sirens than anywhere else. And PrettyBaby raises a good point about the studio environment/process, however, that could go either way, too: You’re on the clock in the studio, on someone else’s time, paying (a good amount of $) for that time. When you’re recording at home, even though you may not have the input that an outside producer could offer, you do have all the time in the world to do as many takes as you want (though i guess one could argue that it depends on the person’s self-discipline). When you’re in the studio though you have to come in with your material already pretty polished and tight.
 
Find My Own Way is the one song on Sirens that has a markedly different style of playing, one that is very characteristic of a beginning guitar student, probably even more so than any other of her acoustic songs, even down to the fact that the guitar is out of tune. It’s also notable that it’s the only song on Sirens with strummed chords. I guess there’s the possibility that someone else played guitar on Sirens while she maybe played on Find My Own Way? Has this possibility ever been mentioned? I doubt that’s the case though, simply because the playing is not adept enough to suggest that it’s someone who was called in (even if just a friend doing a favor for her). So, i don’t know, if Sirens predates the other songs and she did indeed play on it, maybe she purposely simplified her playing after Sirens? Even though the playing on those other acoustic songs sounds so much more rudimentary to me than the playing on Sirens, i have to be open to the possibility of being a stylistic choice.
 
Some more questions:
 
Are we using internet upload dates as a certain indicator of when a song was written/recorded? Ya’ll probably know what i think of that
 
What year did Lizzy first have a MySpace page?
 
 
 
I can accept all that, good points. And you’re right that i sometimes don’t pay enough attention to the lyrics as they relate to her life. I hope it’s evident that i’m not arguing for one particular hypothesis, but rather just throwing out an array of possibilities that i don’t really see being mentioned, all with the aim of getting closer to “the truth.” I guess my point was that just as we can’t really trust her when she gives a date/year, i feel we also shouldn’t automatically disqualify any date/year she gives. That’s fallacious reasoning, no?

Taken with some small to large portion of salt, yes, but also:
 
1. I don't recall the issue on .fm over her claim to have written Axl and Elvis at 16/17. Who was skeptical and why? Does the fact that the claim was met with skepticism on the old forum necessarily mean anything on its own?
 
2. What's the context of PSB being the first song she wrote? Who did she say that to? I think sometimes we have to consider the audience, that is, who she is talking/responding to. She probably treats questions differently depending on who is asking. I don't mean to imply that she lies to certain people and not to others, but that maybe the picture she paints for certain people is a little less complete because they are not as knowledgeable on the subject and so it wouldn't affect them as much to give them incomplete answers or answers that require less thought and backstory. Also, what if she wrote the PSB lyrics first and then recorded the demo years later, and that's what she means?
 
3. Yayo could have been written years before any demo was recorded. Or how do we know that one of the two Yayo demos we have don't date to seven years ago? Or how do we know there aren't other Yayo demos that we don't have, and have never even heard of, that date back to seven years ago? Or what if--because few people know the timeline of their own life with precise accuracy--that she misremembered and that it was really six years, not seven? Does the one year discrepancy totally disqualify her word? Let's keep in mind that it is very common for artists to have songs around for years, sometimes even DECADES, before doing something definitive with them, and in that time the song could morph in so many ways and be demoed many times or not demoed at all, etc.
 
4. The touring outside the US for a period of three years...are you referring to the Ride monologue or something else? If it's the monologue from the video, that is not to be taken as fact.

You crazy, boy. Other way around, by a long shot. Sirens is the peak of her guitar playing, in terms of technical abilities.
 
 
Yeah, by one year. Don't think there's a need to be so pedantic when it comes to the age thing. If she said she recorded something when she was 16 or 17, then okay, give or take a year, no big deal. It's not as if she is absurdly trying to pass for many years younger.
 
My educated guess, based on guitar playing and her voice, is that Axl Rose Husband and Elvis are among the earliest recordings. They were undoubtedly recorded during the same period and were recorded on the internal mic of her laptop whereas Money Hunny and Fordham Road weren't. Who knows what that means. Did she start off recording with the internal mic of her laptop and eventually upgrade her equipment as "logic" might dictate? Or did she have decent equipment at first and, say, she had to sell it, or she got rid of it for whatever reason and then started recording again but took a step down in equipment? Maybe she had to sell her microphone for drug money? Maybe she moved and got rid off all her possessions. Did she borrow equipment from friends at one point or another? Did one of her friends record her with their own equipment, as is a common thing to do? Who knows. I don't think there's anything we can really extract from this because anything could have happened in any chronological order. Sirens is a studio recording though, that much we know. She is likely to have amassed some home recordings prior to going into a studio for the first time, though that, of course, is not a set in stone rule. I believe, stylistically, Fordham Road is closer to the period of Sirens.
 
So my educated guess based on observation and the little that we do know is, chronologically:
 
Axl Rose Husband
Elvis
Money Hunny
Fordham Road
Sirens
 
I'm just using the songs that have been mentioned in this thread, i don't have the energy right now to recall other possible contenders.
 
EDIT: Then again, take the example of John Frusciante. If you didn't know any facts about him and only had his solo recordings to go by to try to piece together information, there was a time when his guitar playing actually worsened and became noticeably simpler because he was strung out on heroin while recording AND the equipment he was using at that point was a step down because he had either gotten rid of all his shit or lost it or it was stolen or he had sold it for drug money, etc. Again, "logic" would dictate that the less advanced playing and more primitive recording equipment would be an indicator of these recordings preceding the stuff that exhibits the more advanced playing and better sound quality, when that actually isn't the case.

I feel groggy and i'm in a weird mood and i'm just going to ramble and spout out thoughts related to the direction that this discussion has taken. I should probably drink tea and move my body around, but oh well.
 
The subject of leaks is quite complex. There are so many variables and considerations to take into account. I've yet to form a definitive opinion on the matter, and that bothers me because i'd like to neatly wrap my stance on the matter in a pretty little bow, feel certain about it, be done with it and move on to something else. That said, what Baby V Alex said earlier today in another thread is one of the few things i can say i really feel certain about:
 
 
I don't think this point can be overstated. In general, a lot of leaked music isn't really "commercially viable" and we'd be unlikely to hear it otherwise. It's unfortunate how often a popular artist isn't fully represented because of what the label deems marketable. So, why not subvert capitalism, right? Sounds good to me.
 
However, that, of course, is not the only thing to consider here. There's the artist's thoughts and feelings about their unreleased material circulating; their financial standing can be a factor (though that can introduce a moral slippery slope); the moral issues of piracy; is intellectual property not property?; should music be free?; a real, tangible, full quality product vs. an inferior copy, and the relative monetary value of each. The list goes on and on, hence why it's so complex.
 
The thing is, the subject seems to be pretty elastic, varying from case to case, depending on an artist's own views and their situation. In Lana's case, leaks have certainly helped her develop a greater fan base. But as evilentity reminded us, we don't know her stance on leaks. It would be a different scenario if there was word from her saying that she's actively opposed to leaks (for whatever reason, be it she is embarrassed by her older stuff and doesn't want it circulating; she doesn't consider it finished and doesn't like the idea of people hearing works in progress, etc.) As i said before though, what we do know is that she hasn't exactly shied away from sharing her music throughout the years. Once an artist becomes a public figure though their back catalog, how it gets handled, and who has and should/shouldn't have access to it becomes a pretty hairy situation. But the control is pretty much out of her hands now. You'll recall that there have been times where even her posting a video to her own YouTube channel lead to WMG pulling it.
 
Being a professional musician/performer is a weird concept. What a luxury to get paid to make music! And how remarkable that we live in a world where it's even an option. I've never fully known what to make of this, and i say this as someone whose entire life revolves around music, whether it's creating it or appreciating it. Now, would i want my demos to slip out of my fingers and get into the public's hands? Ignoring the fact that most people probably wouldn't give a shit about my music, no, probably not. That's because i am very controlling about how i want myself and my work to be represented and heard. There are others, of course, who have a completely different view of the situation. Should the way that we approach leaks vary from artist to artist? Is that realistic or even possible? Really, at the end of the day, someone's demos and unreleased work is none of our fucking business. It's their or some company's property. But that's also not realistic, it's not the world in which we live. The proverbial can of worms or pandora's box has been opened long ago, and as things stand now, there doesn't really seem to be any going back, no? This is the culture now, it has been for a while, and is only moving more and more in a certain direction. I think the game just needs to be reinvented, and i am curious to see where things go in the next decade or so, because something fundamental in the system has to change. Maybe in the future we'll find ourselves purchasing vials of Lana's sweat in an attempt to have something tangible and personal amidst a cultural sea of sameness, all those 1s and 0s. Of course, that'll only be after some company has convinced us with their advertisements that we want and maybe even need Lana's sweat...
 
 
EDIT: I forgot to mention one very important thing--the one undoubtedly positive thing that has resulted from leaking in the internet age: third parties (bootleggers) hardly, if ever, get to profit from other people's music anymore. And that's a really great thing. Why should anyone profit from something they don't own, had no hand in creating, didn't fund, AND obtained illegally?

Imma kick back and watch this train run out of steam while people project their guilt onto others, assume Lana's motives and intentions, and pretend to know how the music industry works. All, of course, over a tall glass of maple syrup lemonade, a mountain of spaghetti, and a slice of lemon pie cake.
 
NO, but 4 seriously guyz, this is, uh, insane. Pooling money together so that one person can make a trip to DC to hear some old recordings and then report back with a verbal description of them? There's liking an artist's music and then there's being pathologically obsessive. That said, i'm not trying to stop anyone here. Be merry and carry on.
 
To those who moralistically recoil at the mere thought of tracking down these songs, and cite the "personal" nature of her unreleased music as evidence for leaving it be: these songs are registered at the LOC, not sitting on an old hard drive of hers in oblivion. Throughout the years leading up to getting signed to a major, she has distributed her music, whether at shows, giving physical copies to acquaintances and colleagues, or putting them up online. And now she's a major artist. You think a signed artist has the agency to just release whatever music whenever they desire? What do you think record labels, label executives, and distributors are for? She's under contract, of which we don't know the terms--she can't just "release" her music as she pleases, so the argument that because she hasn't done so yet she must not want to, is meaningless. That is flawed logic and a gross oversimplification.
 
Maybe she doesn't care for that old stuff. Maybe she doesn't even think about it anymore. Maybe she's embarrassed by it given the age at which it was recorded. But again, Sirens was given out to people, and these other unknown songs are registered with the LOC. The fact of the matter is that she is now a public recording artist with a back catalogue of registered music. This business about her old songs being "too personal" is hogwash. The idea being discussed in this thread wouldn't even cause material to leak. Now that is another topic altogether--the moral implications of pirating intellectual property. Why don't we discuss THAT rather than making shit up?

WHAT THIS THREAD IS FOR:
 
General and fact-based Lana-related questions that are easily answered and not intended for their own discussion.
 
Examples:
 
“Which interview was it where Lana mentioned being a fan of David Lynch?"
"What performance was it where Lizzy did the cover of The Happiest Girl In The Whole U.S.A.?"
“What’s Lana’s brother’s name?”
“What was the name of that boarding school that Lana attended?”
 
You know, stuff like that.
 
 
 
WHAT THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR:
 
--Any questions about specific discussion topics that already have a home somewhere on the forum, such as individual songs in the Lyrics section, past photo shoots in the Gallery, unreleased/demo songs in the Audio section. Questions pertaining to specific subjects such as these can still be directed to those existing threads.
 
--Discussion type of questions that are a matter of opinion. Eg: “Who do you prefer, Lana or Lizzy?" or “What do you think would happen if Lana went on SNL again?” Those are opinion-based topics for on-going discussion that are not appropriate for this thread, and are better suited for their own thread.
 
***Before you ask your question, have a look here at the thread dedicated to rumors and debunked myths about Lana Del Rey, as the answer to your question might very well already be there.

Maybe she got paid 100 bucks to let men with a foot fetish rub her feet?
 
Or to pee on men?
 
Or to be photographed nude?
 
Or to masturbate or have sex with her boyfriend(s) in front of men in motel rooms? Or for wealthy businessmen in nice hotels?
 
Or to abuse and humiliate masochists?
 
Or to stand at an intersection wearing a sign for a local business?
 
Or hand out flyers?
 
:creepy:

You’re right, i spoke too soon. I should have known that Lana Del Rey fans who, like, once watched a video on YouTube about Rihanna with the word Illuminati in the title, or heard something about something from someone who knows someone, would be well informed on various secret 16th Century Bavarian organizations. 
 
Hey, maybe litewave will come into this thread and shut me up with the ultimate analysis of Lana Del Rey, which ties her to a rich lineage of Bavarian esotericists. 
 
Lots of Masons were Catholics, by the way. A lot of that stuff was just white men getting together to drink and be assholes. 

By the way, lest my first post gets misunderstood, i was including myself in that--i don’t know shit about the Illuminati. My point was that, being that it is a rich culture and huge area of study that spans centuries, covering religion, government and politics, social class, war, history, etc. i sincerely doubt anyone here truly knows much about the actual Illuminati--not "the Illuminati" as it’s understood today in popular culture/conspiracy theorist circles--to "speculate" on anything about it.  
 
This thread just screams of trolling to me and there’s been an overwhelming amount of this shit around here lately. I’m sure i’m not the only one who’s tired of it. 

I was just listening to this song while making a sandwich. Gosh, it’s such a good song. It’s so tender and heartbreaking. It’s an especially great song for nighttime. I love the loose quality it has, how it sounds like it was just a quick and spontaneous thing, recorded one night in a sudden flash of inspiration, like it just needed to come out. I love how understated but unique the backing track is with that incongruous drum machine and the little weird noises. I wouldn’t change a thing about it. 
 
These lyrics, i think, are some of her most heartfelt. It’s just chock-full of such simple yet powerful and poignant lines that i think a lot of people can relate to. I especially love the line “the panic and the fear.” Anyone who suffers from panic attacks knows that it’s one of the worst feelings in the world. 
 
Doesn’t the chorus sound like something you’ve heard before in another life? That melody seems to perfectly capture the song’s sentiments, that sense of feeling trapped and that realization that you have to do something, make some sort of change in your life. Your dead-end relationship has sort of become your comfort zone. You think you can change the relationship or even the other person, but you know you’re just lying to yourself. 
 
Her falsetto in this song has a strange quality to it, it’s almost hysterical. And at the end when she abruptly comes out of it back into her lower register (as she’s repeating that she’s done being afraid), it makes me think of, like, when you’ve been crying for hours and you just suddenly snap out of it because you just physically cannot cry anymore.  
 
What a fucking song.

I'm actually wearing it right now. I'm not giving it up. Sorry. 

I agree that she isn't made for this industry, and that she often becomes defensive in interviews, but i actually wasn't referring to interviewers pushing her with their questions. What i meant was that sometimes they seem to be treating her as if she's some kind of freak or just a complete novelty and nothing more.

So often when i read interviews with her i get this image of someone gawking at her with furrowed brows, probing her with a stick, looking underneath her, turning her over, spinning her around, tapping her, asking aloud, "What is it? What do we do with this?" I find the underlying attitude toward her in a lot of interviewers really tiring. Maybe i'm just misreading them though, i don't know. Does anyone get this impression?

I believe she plays the entirety of Get Drunk on the low E, like someone who's been playing guitar for a week   Not that it matters anyway, it can be played to your liking--all on the E or a combination of the E and A strings. Or you can just smash your guitar to smithereens and get drunk 
 
A bit of advice to those who are interested in more than just playing along to a handful of your favorite songs, and would like to work toward being competent musicians: with songs like Get Drunk where it's all single notes, try to pick them out by ear, it's the first and most basic step in some of the best ear training you can give yourself. It may be frustrating at first, but it's really not that difficult, and it gets easier with time and practice. It'll really, really develop your overall playing and ear/listening. Train your ear to recognize notes. You will thank yourself later. 
 
And for those who are a little more serious and ambitious, moving on to picking out chords will enrich your overall musicianship tenfold. It'll take more time than picking out single notes, of course, but it's invaluable training. A little tip: keep in mind that most of Lana's song only use major and minor triads (3 note chords) and each song is usually just 3 to 5 total chords, so it's not that hard to play around and find the chords. I mean, think of it this way: there are only 24 different chords to pick from, right? (though there are a handful of her songs that have the occasional 7th or suspended chord or whatever). 
 
If you're just interested in playing along to the occasional song here and there for fun, then kindly ignore everything i've just said. Actually, you should just ignore everything i've ever said and will say and just get hammered. 

Early Rick Rubin SLAYER style! Gimme the brite lites, gimme the brite lites, gimme the ANGEL OF DEATH
 
 
Quick, there's no time to waste, there's a secret back door out of here that i know of. Once you get out just keep running and don't stop. I'll distract the lynch mob and keep you covered for a while. Take this knife with you, it's all i've got.
God bless.  

Is there a HATE button i can click on for this wretched song (which i’ve still never been able to listen to all the way through). I love it when great things inspire the most horrid mediocrity. Erm, no offense to anyone who calls themselves a fan of Barenaked Ladiezzz.
 
 
But ‘twas a mere joke. They’ve got some similarities, though, let me tell you.
 
 
I love Radio! The live performances from November of 2011 or thereabouts and the demo (which is what those early live performances were based on) are great. I enjoy the demo more than the album version, i love the slight little country twang in the guitar of the chorus. The end build up is so nice, happy, and uplifting. It’s just a simple little catchy song.
 
 
That is such a great image. I want to film that.
 
 
Where can i buy a can of generic horse shit?
 
 
With kind regards, you are insane.
 
 
I believe it is an unpopular opinion around here, but i, too, like it in its entirety. It took me a little time for that to happen though. And although i like the whole of BTD, i think AKA blows it away.

Oh yeah, i forgot to mention 100 bucks to clean some dude's house in her bra and underwear/lingerie, and have the sort of exchanges that ataraxia described above.
 
Also, 100 bucks to wash his stupid car in a stupid "sexy" outfit.
 
100 bucks for her dirty underwear?
 
No, 100 bucks to come over to some guy's house and use him as a coffee table or foot stool, propping her feet up on him while, like, flipping through a magazine.
 
100 bucks to go to a bar with a guy and sit across the room from him and flash him every so often, pretending that they're strangers even though they actually are strangers.
 
100 bucks to let a guy put a fox/cat tail butt plug in her and walk her around his house on her hands and knees on a leash, making her lap up milk out of a dog bowl?
 
What else?
 
100 bucks to do father/daughter or brother/sister or mother/son (he could be an adult baby!) role play.
 
100 bucks to fulfill some guy's voyeur fantasy: she comes over and pretends that his house is where she lives, shuffling around the bedroom or kitchen while she pretends to not notice him standing outside peering in through a window.
 
No wait.
 
100 bucks to shit on a guy's chest and then run him over with his own car while he lies in the street masturbating?
 
Or i guess there's always the possibility that it could have just been 100 dollars to participate in a survey on, like, smoking, or be a subject in sleep research.
 
God, i should probably have some sleepy tea and go to bed...

Dude...what the hell happened to Elizabeth's lyrical skills? She was so good and it seems after she peaked she just went gradually downhill, but in such a short amount of time. Why did the quality of her writing drop so much? ¿Que paso con esta chica, coño?

I was finally able to read this all for the first time. My head is kind of spinning. 
 
God, this person wrote a lot and was very fiery. I don’t know that that sort of zeal can be faked. Or more specifically, when someone sounds that passionate about supposed events, chances are they’re not making things up, or at least not entirely. She is also almost neurotically specific and repetitive about locations and names. It sounds like a person who was, in some way, wronged or saw, firsthand, questionable behavior toward others that she is strongly opposed to, and wants the people responsible to be held accountable.
 
But then that weird, endless tirade about how music today is corrupting the youth, how the record industry should take responsibility for all problems in society, that they are mostly responsible for crime, pedophilia, rape, and violence against women, all the while using words like evil and so many CAPS. Dude......wut? I really wish people who make these sort of claims would realize that these things have been around since the beginning of humanity.
 
She sounds like someone who's a little "off." Which i hate to say because if she and others really were sexually and mentally abused, there’s nothing worse than dismissing a person as hysterical and discrediting their account. Plus, trauma can make people sound crazy    Even just her writing style and the way she is so incredibly repetitive comes off as someone who has had trauma. Also, based on her language, it seems she had already done a good amount of talking to lawyers.
 
The comments under hers piss me off so much, and are so typical of the lowest lows of the internet. I love when people get angry at someone with a mental illness (if she is indeed mentally ill), and call them a BITCH. Ugh, i hate people. One single person (the last comment) responded in a civil manner and refrained entirely from insults. 
  If this stuff really did happen, i really hope that she and others are okay and that the guilty parties are dealt with accordingly. I don't know, i feel like something probably happened here. Why put so much energy into accusing specific people? Those people must have done something, but the question is what exactly and how severe was it. 
 
Very puzzling piece of the puzzle. My head hurts and i feel depressed now. 

Just realized a way to test this out. Go to youtube and start typing Lana Del Rey with any of the Elizabeth C. Grant titles that are commonly mistaken as Lana titles (Epiphany, Little Angel, Break The Cycle, Jonah, Lullabye) and you will see that auto complete will come on for all of them. So i think it also happens for common searches. What are the chances that someone has fake videos for all of the ECG song titles, set on private, ready for when these songs never leak?

The forum got noticeably worse when that sissy character started posting. I wouldn't be surprised if s/he is behind everything terrible that has happened since. Fuck everything.

I am Calendargirl.