Honeymoon - Post-Release Discussion Thread + Poll

[longtimeman 8,921]

Thanks

 

Does anyone have an idea of what does "set pa" means?

 

 

 

 

Public Announcement System (aka speakers on set)? of Personal Assistant?

[HawaiianTropic 566]

Public Announcement System (aka speakers on set)? of Personal Assistant?

I'd say it's Public Announcement system. There are PAs everywhere, they are usually hanging on the wall and whenever you hear little messages come through in a shopping centre, for example, it's through a PA system. The PA system for the set was probably to play the music through, so Lana could lip-sync along, or shots could be filmed in time with the music I suppose?

[WaitForLife 5,238]

I would've loved an album with the sound of Wait For Life

[slang 1,532]

So, what was Lana trying to say with Honeymoon? What's the history or the message after all?

If we're talking about the album (not just the song or video fragment), she actually gives an answer to this question here:

http://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2015/11/10/lana-del-rey-on-paranoia-father-john-misty-nina-simone-and-honeymoon

<<<<<<<quote>>>>>>>>>

Interviewer: Each album of yours has a distinct narrative and you're able to adopt that narrative and thread it throughout the entire album. What was your intention with the narrative of Honeymoon?

 

LDR: I do love records that have a strong concept. The narrative for [Honeymoon], it was a tribute to Los Angeles and, because of the soundcaping — we had a lot of amazing strings — I think the mood was the narrative. It's a lot of descriptive pieces about driving at night or being in love, not being in love. Kind of the same old thing.

<<<<<<<endQuote>>>>>>>>>

 

Mood not storyline. So I don't get any unified message from HM as in a "concept album". There may be a concept inherent in the cover art that I can go along with, something like taking a tour of LDR's mind, but this doesn't imply the songs have any kind of narrative connection or commonality to each other (at least for me). Early rumors about HM songs compared them to happy Amy Winehouse. I think the comparison was interesting; however, Back to Black seems to have been about creating new "classic" songs from the Motown era; whereas, LDR's version of a retro album seemed more like a rangey set of low-key, introspective, and highly cinematic mood songs. I'm reminded of people/movies like Bernard Hermann (HM the song), Dimitri Tiomkin (Religion/GKIT?), Godfather (Salvatore), Bond (24/SwSo). Maybe not all it's songs are pigeon-holeable this way, but it's a dominant trend for me. I also happen to think DLMBM is a Sinatra-inspired cover (Frank not Nancy). Another message I get from HM is that she can write fast, and also that she likes writing fast when inspiration hits. Good for her (and us). 

[Wynwood 19,967]

i feel like The Blackest Day would fit UV if it was placed after FMWUTT

[Flipflopfan 254]

i feel like The Blackest Day would fit UV if it was placed after FMWUTT

I think that UV and HM ought to be an album with 10-12 songs. They are different sonically but I bet that Dan would do no wrong with the best material from HM. There would be a lot of good songs that would be left out from both of the albums but the final result would be a masterpiece (with no Nina covers and unnecessary jabs at her critics).

 

My UV+HM playlist:

 

1. Honeymoon

2. UV 

3. BB

4. Religion

5. Freak

6. SoC 

7. CW

8. WC

9. Art Deco

10. TBD

11. TLY 

12. SwanS

[graham4anything 2,859]

@@PARADIXO- actually, there is no song I dislike, especially no song I hate.

Which is the most amazing thing about Lana.  Artists I have constantly listened to historically had clunkers (Elton John used to have three or four "filler" songs on his most popular albums, the Beatles had some shitty songs, Pet Shop Boys, Kate Bush had many songs I simply could not listen to more than once. But honestly, cannot say there is any song like that on any of Lana's stuff.

No filler. No shit. 

 

Just going from all her "Lana Del Rey" product-

Didn't think she would do better than BTD then Paradise upped it (and I consider Paradise a stand-alone LP not

Didn't think it was possible to up Paradise and then Ultraviolence came along

Once upon a Time, unbelievable

Didn't think in no way Ultraviolence would hit me like it did but it floored me

and no way in hell could she make  it even  more with Honeymoon but she continued besting herself again and again and again

 

some of the songs took a little longer to get on Honeymoon (24 Hours,but once I got it, and put it in the meaning, it turns out to be one of the most

important songs ("If you lie down with dogs you'll get fleas". Her vocals on that blow me away.

But same on all the songs.

 

Indirectly was having a conversation with someone today who had in the background a mix of Simon and Garfunkel songs and he (who is not familiar with Lana)

said no one makes harmonies anymore like S&G did.

I said he was wrong...I said there is one-

Lana has from day one had that harmony and the best thing is- it is all her, all her own vocals layered, as if she was S&G, the Beach Boys, Elton John (whose

songs in the 1970s all had great harmony by his own band (Davey Johnston, Dee Murray, Nigel Olssen and guest studio singers).

 

Lana's vocals in general, on the entire Honeymoon album, the bridges, etc. are Roy Orbison like opera like.

(someone else a few pages back said WRONGLY, her voice was small...no it is opera like but she sometimes is singing softly (as if she is singing to herself only, and those listening are just eavesdropping on her private moments

 

that's my opinion on it.

Sorry for not seeing your response sooner.

 

and btw, her original Summertime Sadness song, first thing I thought when I heard that was

Nancy Sinatra's Sugar Town (Sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh Sugar Town). Summertime Sadness is a fuller, better song.

[WaitForLife 5,238]

for me she has 2 - 3 filler songs on each album/EP

[luckyonewithoutyou 1,929]

I think all the covers are filler songs, doesn't necessarily mean I don't enjoy them though.

[leaked_version 10,499]

I don't think TOW is filler. It's kinda essential to the story on UV. DLMBM is totally filler though. Swan Song should have been the closing track

[slang 1,532]

I don't think TOW is filler. It's kinda essential to the story on UV. DLMBM is totally filler though. Swan Song should have been the closing track

In an album of 65 minutes, how can a 3 minute song be filler? I mean it's just Lana singing an extra classic song, and even if her version strikes you as bad, how can an artist experimenting/re-examining repertoire be a bad thing? You also have to come to grips with the idea that it may not be filler for her, because only that song and honeymoon song have complete lyrics in the physical liner notes. I suppose a condition of her covering the song might have been that she print the lyrics, in which case she could have printed the HM song lyrics to be symmetrical, which seems like a weak reason. I for one like the song's presence, because a) it's a great song, b) it kind of gives her carte blanche to sing anything she likes in the future (i.e., it could be construed as a manifesto song) c) her emotional reading of it (imo) is with fatalism, like she will be misunderstood no matter what she does.

[Starsx 1,849]

"Catch me if you can, working on my tan,

Dying by the hand of a foreign man happily" 

 

I really hope Lana sings the perfection that is Salvatore live at one of the festivals 

[LittleFool 1,912]

 

"Catch me if you can, working on my tan,

Dying by the hand of a foreign man happily" 

 

I really hope Lana sings the perfection that is Salvatore live at one of the festivals 

 

 

You like a song that's not on BTD?! 

 

Sorry, I had to 

[yourgirlcorny 132]

Honeymoon gets too much hate. Everytime a HM song comes on shuffle I remember how much I actually like the record. God knows I tried is supreme

[Flipflopfan 254]

Honeymoon gets too much hate. Everytime a HM song comes on shuffle I remember how much I actually like the record

I feel the same. HM is one of her strangest record and I start my UV+HM playlist with it.

[Flipflopfan 254]

In an album of 65 minutes, how can a 3 minute song be filler? I mean it's just Lana singing an extra classic song, and even if her version strikes you as bad, how can an artist experimenting/re-examining repertoire be a bad thing? You also have to come to grips with the idea that it may not be filler for her, because only that song and honeymoon song have complete lyrics in the physical liner notes. I suppose a condition of her covering the song might have been that she print the lyrics, in which case she could have printed the HM song lyrics to be symmetrical, which seems like a weak reason. I for one like the song's presence, because a) it's a great song, b) it kind of gives her carte blanche to sing anything she likes in the future (i.e., it could be construed as a manifesto song) c) her emotional reading of it (imo) is with fatalism, like she will be misunderstood no matter what she does.

I don't like her Nina covers because it just not suits her singing style in my opinion. But she sings TOW>>>>DLBMM 

 

Regarding that ”she will be misunderstood no matter what she does” I have to say that I'm starting to get annoyed with her victimization and with the songs depicting it like MPG, FMMTT, GKIT, DLBMM etc.. which I cut from my playlist. I think that she had many opportunities to clarify her controversies but she kept fueling the ambiguity around her with even more useless controversies. Some say that it was a strategy from her but I think that is more a psychological thing, she seems to me that she wants to be (perceived) as a victim or the other woman. I cringed when she said to J.Franco that it's better if he writes "around" her. Like WTF? In my experience it's better to let things go if you don't explain yourself immediately and forcefully. People will believe what they believe anyway and it's better to focus on your life and art instead of taking jabs at them through music. I hope that on her next album she stops the misguided namedroppings and the covers no matter how prestigious those artists are. She's so overtly accused with appropriation by so many people that it takes a true troll heart to persist in these things. She needs to step out from her fantasy bubble and rely on her own reality, it won't be pretty and dreamy, it will take effort and time to adjust lyrically but it's the only way I see her going forward and become a respected artist. 

[slang 1,532]

I don't like her Nina covers because it just not suits her singing style in my opinion. But she sings TOW>>>>DLBMM 

 

Regarding that ”she will be misunderstood no matter what she does” I have to say that I'm starting to get annoyed with her victimization and with the songs depicting it like MPG, FMMTT, GKIT, DLBMM etc.. which I cut from my playlist. I think that she had many opportunities to clarify her controversies but she kept fueling the ambiguity around her with even more useless controversies. Some say that it was a strategy from her but I think that is more a psychological thing, she seems to me that she wants to be (perceived) as a victim or the other woman. I cringed when she said to J.Franco that it's better if he writes "around" her. Like WTF? In my experience it's better to let things go if you don't explain yourself immediately and forcefully. People will believe what they believe anyway and it's better to focus on your life and art instead of taking jabs at them through music. I hope that on her next album she stops the misguided namedroppings and the covers no matter how prestigious those artists are. She's so overtly accused with appropriation by so many people that it takes a true troll heart to persist in these things. She needs to step out from her fantasy bubble and rely on her own reality, it won't be pretty and dreamy, it will take effort and time to adjust lyrically but it's the only way I see her going forward and become a respected artist. 

People can certainly dislike DLMBM, and I applaud the fact that you actually say why you dislike it, as that's more interesting than just saying you simply dislike it. When I say that I like DLMBM, it is for purposes of presenting some balanced discussion (and also figuring out why I like it). I think the basic issue of my initial response, is that more Lana is more Lana, and I simply like that.  I think she has gotten a lot better at the "media cutting" game and has arguably mostly said things she has intended to, and I think she's intelligent enough to predict the effects of what she says, which also means I view her ambiguity as intentional. Another basic issue (for me) is "artistic sandboxing", which is the idea that the artist be allowed to explore things in their art and not have it be automatically taken as advocating what's represented in the art or as a confession or personal description. I mean the artist may have intended both, but we can't immediately jump to that conclusion but are supposed to do some benefit-of-the-doubt thinking of it as art for art's sake, so I've never viewed MPG or FMWTTT as victimization songs.

[graham4anything 2,859]

@@Flipflopfan    (and others)

The Other woman fits so perfect in the theme concept album that Ultraviolence is-

Lana is THE OTHER WOMAN in almost all the songs....so much so that I wish they used HER VERSION of the other woman in the final episode of Mad Men on tv.

 

In Honeymoon- Don't let me be misunderstood is the single most important end song, because she is ordering Dear Listener/Dear Reader/Dear Viewer to understand what Honeymoon is about

( a dissertation on fame and on Elizabeth/Lana herself and demands that one goes from Cut 14 back to cut 1 and listen again in a never-ending-loop

 

the interesting thing about Don't let me be misunderstood is it is sort of a composite version of Nina's/The Animals/Santo Esmeraldo (all 3 had hits with the song and was not a direct copy of Nina.

The instrumentation had very big hints of the Animals version. (the Organ)

 

as for some of the media interviews and such- she is toying with them. They have fucked with her so much that now she leads, they are on their knees begging for any morsel and she is not on script. She controls them, not the other way.  (High by the beach also responds to the print media, not just the paps and the stalkers at the wrong time).

 

and I agree that there should be no bonus songs because those are not meant for the concept part

 

Lana should release more physical vinyl singles which have unreleased B sides (like Pet Shop Boys and Springsteen always did)

and put bonus stuff there  (and then those can be uploaded to YouTube and other places)

[yourgirlcorny 132]

I don't like her Nina covers because it just not suits her singing style in my opinion. But she sings TOW>>>>DLBMM 

 

Regarding that ”she will be misunderstood no matter what she does” I have to say that I'm starting to get annoyed with her victimization and with the songs depicting it like MPG, FMMTT, GKIT, DLBMM etc.. which I cut from my playlist. I think that she had many opportunities to clarify her controversies but she kept fueling the ambiguity around her with even more useless controversies. Some say that it was a strategy from her but I think that is more a psychological thing, she seems to me that she wants to be (perceived) as a victim or the other woman. I cringed when she said to J.Franco that it's better if he writes "around" her. Like WTF? In my experience it's better to let things go if you don't explain yourself immediately and forcefully. People will believe what they believe anyway and it's better to focus on your life and art instead of taking jabs at them through music. I hope that on her next album she stops the misguided namedroppings and the covers no matter how prestigious those artists are. She's so overtly accused with appropriation by so many people that it takes a true troll heart to persist in these things. She needs to step out from her fantasy bubble and rely on her own reality, it won't be pretty and dreamy, it will take effort and time to adjust lyrically but it's the only way I see her going forward and become a respected artist. 

Yeah, critics would say that when Ultraviolence was her angry reflection of the backlash, Honeymoon was the record where she would show who she really is as the instrumentation is sparse, the focus is on her voice and she didn´t had some famous producer like Emile or Dan who could take away credit from her. Thats why the first line of HM irritated me. It definitely was more fashionable to love her than ever when she uploaded the track. 

Regarding DLMBM I didn´t see it as  ”she will be misunderstood no matter what she does” or victimization, but instead like "don´t jude me on my mistakes" I think that´s where it really shows that HM originally was supposed to be a reschedulement of UV, like a follow up commentary

 

UV: FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!111

HM: I have mistakes, but my intentions are good

[graham4anything 2,859]

@@Flipflopfan- reply 2316- as for your last line

 

lana is already one of the most respected artists, as witness by the admiration of most other artists (many who steal her work/sound without credit on the label) and her perfectly named "Trailblazer award" By Billboard magazine (equal to a Hall of Fame award).