MARINA (and The Diamonds)

[Charlottexseax 7,943]

also she said she wanted L+F to sound commercial so yall can shut up now

Britney Spears is commercial, but she’s fucking good

Love + Fear is commercial and terrible

 

Commercial doesn’t equal bad

[godsmonster 14,221]

Britney Spears is commercial, but she’s fucking good

Love + Fear is commercial and terrible

 

Commercial doesn’t equal bad

 

 

I mean...so what? Obviously it was intentional to sound commercial. Doesn't mean it's any good

i mean, yes both your points are very valid, and i agree

however people ruined this album for themselves by going into it expecting it to be something, especially comparing it to past albums (ik someone is gonna say they were going into it expecting it to be good, shush lol)

idk like if you go in expecting anything, you can appreciate it for what it is better

idk that's just me. I like L+F. IS it my fav? No, but it does have some of my fav songs by her. it exists in it's own lane like all her albums, and i appreciate it for her taking a different approach. Saying Marina is dead or whatever is just being dramatic. Artists are allowed to evolve, grow, and outgrow themselves.

yes i am slightly buzzed rn but i still mean what i say.

[cherryblossoms 10,417]

Y'all expecting L+F to have changed the pop landscape

 

I mean, wasn't the goal of L+F to incorporate elements of modern pop trends from the time it was being recorded. The fact that none of L+F ever had an ample chance at getting airplay on the radio says a lot about how much watering down actually occurs for a song to be truly considered "commercial."

I doubt her label actually expected L+F to be a hit record so a lot of the songs retained some pretty interesting sonic elements that would've otherwise been put on the chopping block.

That alone makes this album so much more interesting than what's considered commercial

Yeah, it's no masterpiece but it did a good job at what it was set out to do.

[Veinsineon 76,785]

God forbid somebody make something not super ultra deep so it has broad appeal

[I Come In Peace 3,478]

Saying that the music was made to be "commercial" does not mean it's suppose to ba bad & watered-down.

Take these albums for example - "Love Angel Music Baby", "Britney (2001)", "The Best Damn Thing" and even "Electra Heart" - all of those albums were made to be commercial, yet they are all amazing albums that I can bop till this day.

[HEARTCORE 18,971]

i mean, yes both your points are very valid, and i agree

however people ruined this album for themselves by going into it expecting it to be something, especially comparing it to past albums (ik someone is gonna say they were going into it expecting it to be good, shush lol)

idk like if you go in expecting anything, you can appreciate it for what it is better

idk that's just me. I like L+F. IS it my fav? No, but it does have some of my fav songs by her. it exists in it's own lane like all her albums, and i appreciate it for her taking a different approach. Saying Marina is dead or whatever is just being dramatic. Artists are allowed to evolve, grow, and outgrow themselves.

yes i am slightly buzzed rn but i still mean what i say.

Stop putting the onus on the fans. She made a bad album, simple as that. L+F is not a sign of growth or evolution - if anything, it's a sign that she's regressing. The songwriting is lazy, the production is not interesting, and pretty much the album is her talking without actually saying anything

 

Y'all expecting L+F to have changed the pop landscape

 

I mean, wasn't the goal of L+F to incorporate elements of modern pop trends from the time it was being recorded. The fact that none of L+F ever had an ample chance at getting airplay on the radio says a lot about how much watering down actually occurs for a song to be truly considered "commercial."

I doubt her label actually expected L+F to be a hit record so a lot of the songs retained some pretty interesting sonic elements that would've otherwise been put on the chopping block.

That alone makes this album so much more interesting than what's considered commercial

Yeah, it's no masterpiece but it did a good job at what it was set out to do.

 

Which was...what exactly? To alienate a large proportion of her fanbase? To become the fourth member of Clean Bandit?

[bluefiona 8,050]

did anyone save it

nvm

 

Marina's official VK page has the entire livestream saved. You might need a VK account to see it though. 

 

https://vk.com/diamandia?w=wall-19046110_106758

[cherryblossoms 10,417]

Stop putting the onus on the fans. She made a bad album, simple as that. L+F is not a sign of growth or evolution - if anything, it's a sign that she's regressing. The songwriting is lazy, the production is not interesting, and pretty much the album is her talking without actually saying anything

 

 

Which was...what exactly? To alienate a large proportion of her fanbase? To become the fourth member of Clean Bandit?

The Clean Bandit bit made me laugh

 

Honestly I feel like her career has always had weird in the sense that she occupies the space between being pop (EH, L+F) and being alternative (TFJ, Froot). I feel like every album release has caused division one way or another because of that.

 

It’s just a collection of catchy pop songs (pop by 2019’s standards) and I think that’s all it should really be taken for. Context is important. EH’s production is borderline unlistenable and embarassing if you take away the fact that it was meant to be satirical. Plus, if you polled average music fans, I feel like the preferences wouldn’t necessarily be skewed to an album like EH (which is the most comparable album to L+F in her discography). They both essentially follow the same formula. One has more personality and a better executed concept but at the end of the day, an album like EH isn’t heaps and bounds better than some songs on L+F.

Could L+F been more well-executed and thought out? Yes.

It still has faults and weak points but stans pretending like it’s not listenable when we’ve been fed equally generic stuff under the guise of it being ironic and whatnot is a kii.

[HEARTCORE 18,971]

The Clean Bandit bit made me laugh

 

Honestly I feel like her career has always had weird in the sense that she occupies the space between being pop (EH, L+F) and being alternative (TFJ, Froot). I feel like every album release has caused division one way or another because of that.

 

It’s just a collection of catchy pop songs (pop by 2019’s standards) and I think that’s all it should really be taken for. Context is important. EH’s production is borderline unlistenable and embarassing if you take away the fact that it was meant to be satirical. Plus, if you polled average music fans, I feel like the preferences wouldn’t necessarily be skewed to an album like EH (which is the most comparable album to L+F in her discography). They both essentially follow the same formula. One has more personality and a better executed concept but at the end of the day, an album like EH isn’t heaps and bounds better than some songs on L+F.

Could L+F been more well-executed and thought out? Yes.

It still has faults and weak points but stans pretending like it’s not listenable when we’ve been fed equally generic stuff under the guise of it being ironic and whatnot is a kii.

I feel that she is just so scared to admit to making pop music and she has a huge stick up her butt about it. Like, there is nothing wrong with it? But for TFJ, she was criticising the pop machine, then during EH she went pop but screaming "ITS IRONIC!!!!", which she still says about it now. With Froot, she jumped back to the "pop music suxx" by talking about how rare it is for someone to write an album solo like her. With L&F, she pushed out the BS narrative of the album being based in psychology because she couldn't admit that it was just a bit of fun. Had she just come out to say "hey this is just a carefree record, nothing too serious", I don't think the reception would have been as bad, but she still would have had to answer for some of the CRAP like Life is Strange, To Be Human, Superstar etc.

[June Gloom 1,787]

I feel that she is just so scared to admit to making pop music and she has a huge stick up her butt about it. Like, there is nothing wrong with it? But for TFJ, she was criticising the pop machine, then during EH she went pop but screaming "ITS IRONIC!!!!", which she still says about it now. With Froot, she jumped back to the "pop music suxx" by talking about how rare it is for someone to write an album solo like her. With L&F, she pushed out the BS narrative of the album being based in psychology because she couldn't admit that it was just a bit of fun. Had she just come out to say "hey this is just a carefree record, nothing too serious", I don't think the reception would have been as bad, but she still would have had to answer for some of the CRAP like Life is Strange, To Be Human, Superstar etc.

honestly even tho i love L+F this much is just tea like she really shot herself in the foot with the whole "based in psychology" thing especially when the (bolded, in particular, but honestly all of them) songs just didn't have the sharp writing or interesting sonic direction to hold up the concepts

[HEARTCORE 18,971]

honestly even tho i love L+F this much is just tea like she really shot herself in the foot with the whole "based in psychology" thing especially when the (bolded, in particular, but honestly all of them) songs just didn't have the sharp writing or interesting sonic direction to hold up the concepts

Something like Obsessions is a great example of pop psychology, but if the deepest sentiment that you can offer an album is "life is strange" or "humans are bad", then...

[ChaoticLipster 24,618]

Stop putting the onus on the fans. She made a bad album, simple as that. L+F is not a sign of growth or evolution - if anything, it's a sign that she's regressing. The songwriting is lazy, the production is not interesting, and pretty much the album is her talking without actually saying anything

 

 

 

Which was...what exactly? To alienate a large proportion of her fanbase? To become the fourth member of Clean Bandit?

L&F was an average album it wasn’t terrble, a 7 out of 10 but...

 

We have to face the fact Marina has always craved big success, she appreciates her loyal niche fan base. But it’s clear you don’t change your name, dull down your lyrics, add generic production and work with chart topping artists without reason. I fully believe she started off with an album which had more depth but was watered down. But the good news is her mentioning ‘froot 2’ so I hope a return to form is coming.

[Off To The Races 2010 demo pls 19,335]

Froot demo sounds amazing. Sounds a bit experimental and the scrapped lyrics... my heart

 

Pink Convertible seems to be amazing too, those lyrics are great. I missed this Marina 

[godsmonster 14,221]

someone had made this awesome extended Froot edit called the 12" Edit or 12" Disco Edit, and it was on SoundCloud and YouTube back in late 2018 but it got deleted, does anyone have it, or even know of it? It was made by a guy named Bill I think? And it was like 7-10 minutes long, and was a stem edit

[Charlottexseax 7,943]

Something like Obsessions is a great example of pop psychology, but if the deepest sentiment that you can offer an album is "life is strange" or "humans are bad", then...

 

 

Honestly ALL TFJ has a sort of psychological depth to it, cause it's sincere and it talks about what she was feeling at that time. We know her fears, her delights, everything. It's introspective to a certain extent. Love + Fear is detached and empty, devoid of any actual emotion. It's cold

[Aquemini 297]

I've been a Marina fan since I was 9, so that's nearly 10 years now. I have to agree with people's critiques of L+F. It just felt so hollow and lifeless in comparison to the rest of her discog. Even though TFJ was raw and unpolished, it had a unique charm to it and a strong identitiy. Electra Heart told a strong story and the archetypes were more psychologically perceptive than anything on L+F- I remember the strong impact that album had on me. It created a sort of dark world, like Hollywood's underbelly and was a significant pop culture moment for Marina. And then Froot- although it's not everyone's favorite, I think most people can agree that the production was more complex and captivating than L+F. After hearing HH, and having been so long without any new music, I was so excited at the prospect of a new era. And then came SS and OT. I had a bit of a sinking feeling, but I told myself that perhaps fear would carry a more multifaceted, dark introspectiveness. And then I heard Life is strange, no more suckers (you mess up my towels...). I felt so let down. I felt like I had no idea who Marina even was anymore. I did have tickets to see her (mainly just got them for Allie X tbh) but got the flu, so I couldn't make it. It felt like fate as I knew in the back of my mind I would compare it to her past shows, and wouldn't fully enjoy it. Especially after having been to a Charli show a week before, the energy just wouldn't have been there.

 

Now, Marina's music will always be important to me and I don't want to criticize her evolving sonic preferences. None of her other albums sound the same, but they all sound like Marina. But L+F doesn't even sound like Marina, it sounds like someone who's searching for their identity and unsure whether they want to created something that will please others (label perhaps?) or themselves.

 

I hope her new album might be something a bit more authentic. Whatever she wants to make, if her heart is in it I'll listen. Just with L+F, I didn't hear any of the passion I had come to know of Marina.

[Off To The Races 2010 demo pls 19,335]

Honestly ALL TFJ has a sort of psychological depth to it, cause it's sincere and it talks about what she was feeling at that time. We know her fears, her delights, everything. It's introspective to a certain extent. Love + Fear is detached and empty, devoid of any actual emotion. It's cold

Honestly ALL TFJ has a sort of psychological depth to it, cause it's sincere and it talks about what she was feeling at that time. We know her fears, her delights, everything. It's introspective to a certain extent. Love + Fear is detached and empty, devoid of any actual emotion. It's cold

Love + Fear is also sincere and emotional (I guess...?)though. Yeah the lyrics are basic and simple compared to her previous lyricism but her honesty is easily showed on most of the songs. She said she wanted to express her emotions in a simple way with this album...

 

But yeah you're right about TFJ, I mean people thought she was Misogynistic with Girls and she didn't give a fuck because it was her opinion

[godsmonster 14,221]

was there ever a reason she changed Girls? I love the "original" mix or whatever you call it, the one that sounds a little more aggressive, with the "cut out the face and you cut out the dream"

EDIT:
I think it's the fast car version

[Thunder Revenant 20,943]

God forbid somebody make something not super ultra deep so it has broad appeal

Lol it's pretty unfair of you to assume that broad appeal can ony be archieved by waterer down, bland, exchangeable and boring songs.

[Off To The Races 2010 demo pls 19,335]

was there ever a reason she changed Girls? I love the "original" mix or whatever you call it, the one that sounds a little more aggressive, with the "cut out the face and you cut out the dream"

EDIT:

I think it's the fast car version

Yeah, it's also called the Greek version cause there's a greek instrument or synth (sorry for my ignorance) in the production...

 

Idk, this version was on the first sampler of TFJ, I guess she liked the actual version better. The Calm Down version is my favorite tho