LDR Album Process Discussion

[The Siren 30,525]

2 hours ago, 111 said:

 

atrocious song, boring and weird. should have known it was produced by dan from all the strings and no interesting structure. he really is a great strings composer but he can't produce a proper full production, his work ends up feeling too orchestral with no "pop" flavour. if rick had produced life is beautiful it would have been far more dynamic. he shouldnt be producing anything on his own, he's a composer first and foremost

eclipse coming for Worst Taste

[Let the Light In 18,857]

“Give heaven a try, be young and be wild
Just feel alive”

[longtimeman 9,011]

3 hours ago, nikkilane77 said:

true... I guess nowadays we call everything that's different from the final version a demo but if we get deeper into that some stuff is more like alternative mixes and such

I think the differentiation between things like 'demos', 'outtakes', 'alt mixes', 'alt takes' and so on, that used to be the way different recordings that weren't on a final record were labelled, is all outdated now, because of two things - 1) the fact that the cost of the actual physical device that is used to store the music and recordings is basically negligible (you can buy a Hard drive that can store 10,000 CDs worth of lossless music for about $100 - back in the day, studio tape would cost more than that for an hour), and 2) the type of digital recording you can do with computers gives you access to mixing and mastering technology that the biggest record company in the world in the 1970s couldn't have even dreamed of, as a free app on your phone. Because there's no difference between the medium used to record off somebody's laptop, or in a major recording studio, tracks can be interchanged without the listener to a record ever having any idea what sort of room a part or whole of song were made in, unless the artist wants them to.

In the 1980s, when studio bootlegs and box sets full out 'outtakes', 'alternative mixes' and 'demos' started to appear, you really had to think hard as an artist if you wanted to spend the money on studio time to properly mix down a song, then once it was down, whether to keep it or tape over it again to save money. Now, your producer can generate those 700 mixes on his laptop while watching the latest season of Stranger Things, for no cost at all beyond his time.

tl;dr nowadays, you can call non-released versions/songs whatever you want, because there's no reason anybody aside from the artist/producers would even know their exact recording lineage.

[ImenaOphelia 9,663]

5 hours ago, 111 said:

 

atrocious song, boring and weird. should have known it was produced by dan from all the strings and no interesting structure. he really is a great strings composer but he can't produce a proper full production, his work ends up feeling too orchestral with no "pop" flavour. if rick had produced life is beautiful it would have been far more dynamic. he shouldnt be producing anything on his own, he's a composer first and foremost

delete this and leak syth fc & yg unedited

[Crazy Husband Thief 3,907]

11 hours ago, lilac heaven said:

DICWB is the first song that really got me into lana and made me do a deep dive into her discography for the first time, it still holds up to this day, it deserved to be reworked for BTD so much

Omg DICWB is probably in my Top 3 unreleased Lana songs. It makes me feel so nostalgic. Beautiful beautiful song!

[lanaismamom 11,552]

@Surf Noir is it safe to say that Come When You Call Me A.M.E.R.I.C.A could be possibly considered as AKA outtake? it's like one of not many full-produced song from 2008 besides AKA itself, and idk this specific song has always bothered me wether to include it or not- at the end, it's a very strong idea, not just a random acapella demo

[111 36,926]

2 minutes ago, lanaismamom said:

@Surf Noir is it safe to say that Come When You Call Me A.M.E.R.I.C.A could be possibly considered as AKA outtake? it's like one of not many full-produced song from 2008 besides AKA itself, and idk this specific song has always bothered me wether to include it or not- at the end, it's a very strong idea, not just a random acapella demo

no, AKA's masters was done in january/february of 2008. 

cum when you call me garbage was made after that, she was done working with david for AKA. 

[lanaismamom 11,552]

3 minutes ago, 111 said:

no, AKA's masters was done in january/february of 2008. 

cum when you call me garbage was made after that, she was done working with david for AKA. 

yeah i thought the same i just had an idea that she was coming back to it and do little changes as the album was released after almost 2 years it had been done but i guess david kahne's sessions are the only true aka outtakes atp

[111 36,926]

Just now, lanaismamom said:

yeah i thought the same i just had an idea that she was coming back to it and do little changes as the album was released after almost 2 years it had been done but i guess david kahne's sessions are the only true aka outtakes atp

 

nah AKA Was done and mastered with David and just left to sit there for 2 years. anything she made after that wasn't really considered to be included on that album, i'm assuming whatever kind of deal she had was to really do that one album exclusively with David. either she didn't wanna go back and touch that project as it was made very cohesively or her deal/contract with David or 5 points didn't really allow her to do that. the laptops demos and other stuff she started making in 2008-2009 were all being considered for "album 2" / "LDR2" etc, and i bet that disgusting song cum when u call me murica was made with the next project in mind or just for fun

[evalionisameme 13,899]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:40 AM, ruined said:

Delete. Just delete  Immediately 

It’s a pretty track and I don’t think it’s bad by any minds but it would be an awful opener let’s be honest 

[ruined 1,686]

13 minutes ago, evalionisameme said:

It’s a pretty track and I don’t think it’s bad by any minds but it would be an awful opener let’s be honest 

It's not about that

I said "delete" cuz they said the song itself is a skip (but obviously anyone has their own personal taste and we should respect that)

And about OM being the opening track

That tracklist is most likely not an actual tracklist and in any finalized order

And even if it is

That's tropico and definitely not the exact same uv we have now (we already know that based on infos we have)

We know it was much more tamer than the wild uv

So maybe old money was a perfect opener for tropico

But who knows. At the end of the day we know nothing cuz we never heard tropico as a whole finalized project 

[Coloringbooks 14,077]

So a messy but interesting fact is that Lana actually wanted to add post-AKA/2008–09 songs to the album, prior to its release in January 2010, but her management at the time seemingly stopped this. I'm assuming tracks such as Hundred Dollar Bill and Diet Mountain Dew were possibly considered since they had already been written by that time, and she liked them enough to be major BTD contenders (with the latter obviously making it to the final album).

 

On 9/27/2017 at 5:25 AM, Be Free said:

While his first album is finally ready to go out (in general indifference) in January 2010, Grant asks at the last minute to David Nichtern to add the pseudo Lana Del Ray (with an "a") on the cover. A few weeks later, she contacted him to change his name to Lana Del Rey (with an "e"). Before you simply ask that the disc be removed from the market. "Lizzy then told us that she wanted to change the disc and add some songs while we loved it as it was. We had an artistic disagreement, " recalls David Nichtern. He sighed, plunged into his bad memories: "It was a quite special time. She wanted to change her music, change her name, change her manager ... "

However, I definitely wouldn't consider any 2008–09 tracks written after the completion of AKA's original final masters to be legitimate outtakes from that album. They're just early BTD tbh.

[lanaismamom 11,552]

BOZ said here

Spoiler

I'm not sure about YTH, but Fine China went as far as being mixed by Rob Orton and it's a Rick Nowels version. 

meant he that these tracks were mixed by rob orton with all uv tracks in april 2014?

[Crazy Husband Thief 3,907]

5 hours ago, lanaismamom said:

@Surf Noir is it safe to say that Come When You Call Me A.M.E.R.I.C.A could be possibly considered as AKA outtake? it's like one of not many full-produced song from 2008 besides AKA itself, and idk this specific song has always bothered me wether to include it or not- at the end, it's a very strong idea, not just a random acapella demo

 

4 hours ago, 111 said:

no, AKA's masters was done in january/february of 2008. 

cum when you call me garbage was made after that, she was done working with david for AKA. 

 

4 hours ago, lanaismamom said:

yeah i thought the same i just had an idea that she was coming back to it and do little changes as the album was released after almost 2 years it had been done but i guess david kahne's sessions are the only true aka outtakes atp

 

4 hours ago, 111 said:

 

nah AKA Was done and mastered with David and just left to sit there for 2 years. anything she made after that wasn't really considered to be included on that album, i'm assuming whatever kind of deal she had was to really do that one album exclusively with David. either she didn't wanna go back and touch that project as it was made very cohesively or her deal/contract with David or 5 points didn't really allow her to do that. the laptops demos and other stuff she started making in 2008-2009 were all being considered for "album 2" / "LDR2" etc, and i bet that disgusting song cum when u call me murica was made with the next project in mind or just for fun

 

2 hours ago, Coloringbooks said:

So a messy but interesting fact is that Lana actually wanted to add post-AKA/2008–09 songs to the album, prior to its release in January 2010, but her management at the time seemingly stopped this. I'm assuming tracks such as Hundred Dollar Bill and Diet Mountain Dew were possibly considered since they had already been written by that time, and she liked them enough to be major BTD contenders (with the latter obviously making it to the final album).

 

However, I definitely wouldn't consider any 2008–09 tracks written after the completion of AKA's original final masters to be legitimate outtakes from that album. They're just early BTD tbh.

I think what people need to let go off is the “Outtake from album XYZ”. I think what we can quintessentially get from this thread is that her recording process doesn’t really work that way. 

 

She tends to go back to older and seemingly unrelated material quite a lot and seems to record things when she has some sort of inspirational rush. Then, when she feels that she has enough good material for an album she selects songs from the pool of recordings (old and new) and starts to weave them together through either reworking them or just leaving them as they are.

 

AKA is a reworked product of her actual debut material recorded with Steven Mertens and we know she wasn’t satisfied with the final result at all and frequently refers to the SM version as her “debut”. 

 

Born to Die is a remixed compilation of old songs she recorded from 2010-2012 many of them coming from unrelated sessions and even songs potentially written for other artists at first.

 

Paradise is a selection of material recorded at the time her first album was nearing completion along with a bit of new material. A work-in-process EP, essentially. 

 

Ultraviolence is a re-recording of several failed attempts of a proper sophomore album.

 

Honeymoon is an album that originally started as an additional EP for the UV re-release that evolved into a whole album after several attempts to have a remixed/redone by other producers.

 

Lust for Life is probably the first TRUE new album that was never linked or related to another project. She was seemingly very inspired at that time and had enough material for much more than just one album. 

 

Norman Fucking Rockwell is again, a compilation of new material and a selection of song from previously failed projects.

 

Chemtrails Over the Country Club may very well be a compilation of NFR and LFL outtakes, some much older tracks (LMLYLAW) and a few new songs, all re-recorded and redone.

 

Blue Banisters…well you know. The same as Chemtrails but with minimal effort.

[lanaismamom 11,552]

3 minutes ago, The Love Witch said:

 

 

 

 

I think what people need to let go off is the “Outtake from album XYZ”. I think what we can quintessentially get from this thread is that her recording process doesn’t really work that way. 

 

She tends to go back to older and seemingly unrelated material quite a lot and seems to record things when she has some sort of inspirational rush. Then, when she feels that she has enough good material for an album she selects songs from the pool of recordings (old and new) and starts to weave them together through either reworking them or just leaving them as they are.

 

AKA is a reworked product of her actual debut material recorded with Steven Mertens and we know she wasn’t satisfied with the final result at all and frequently refers to the SM version as her “debut”. 

 

Born to Die is a remixed compilation of old songs she recorded from 2010-2012 many of them coming from unrelated sessions and even songs potentially written for other artists at first.

 

Paradise is a selection of material recorded at the time her first album was nearing completion along with a bit of new material. A work-in-process EP, essentially. 

 

Ultraviolence is a re-recording of several failed attempts of a proper sophomore album.

 

Honeymoon is an album that originally started as an additional EP for the UV re-release that evolved into a whole album after several attempts to have a remixed/redone by other producers.

 

Lust for Life is probably the first TRUE new album that was never linked or related to another project. She was seemingly very inspired at that time and had enough material for much more than just one album. 

 

Norman Fucking Rockwell is again, a compilation of new material and a selection of song from previously failed projects.

 

Chemtrails Over the Country Club may very well be a compilation of NFR and LFL outtakes, some much older tracks (LMLYLAW) and a few new songs, all re-recorded and redone.

 

Blue Banisters…well you know. The same as Chemtrails but with minimal effort.

i dont really agree, by word "outtake" i mean song that ever was intended to be featured on a record, and i dont consider reused outakes from the past records as a part of any album (llke i dont consider living legend, cherry blossom, nectar as part of bb at all) and as for me i cant say about album, that was done before 2020, that its compilation, but i mean we can't take away the definition of outtakes out of her projects it just.... doesnt feel right, and at the end there are known strict lists of outtakes that can be made based on known facts, and ye im a pure purist so thats only thing to do for me to make it a little bit more classified based on pure facts again

[Dark Angel 203,376]

considering how mysterious certain aspects of AKA are, to this day, i think it's fair to say that we really don't have any concrete outtakes from it, i think the most likely outtakes would be jimmy gnecco and get drunk, especially since there's a confirmed david kahne version of jimmy gnecco, but we can't say for certain whether or not that was recorded for AKA or just for fun, it seems like they kept working together during 2008 and 2009, but that was either for fun, or for a possible 2nd album, even though AKA wasn't even out yet, some have speculated that other 2007 songs, especially those produced by steven mertens, such as trash magic, wayamaya, or pin up galore could be AKA outtakes, but it's all just speculation at the end of the day, because we don't know her intentions with those songs, or if any of those have david kahne versions

[Crazy Husband Thief 3,907]

22 hours ago, lanaismamom said:

i dont really agree, by word "outtake" i mean song that ever was intended to be featured on a record, and i dont consider reused outakes from the past records as a part of any album (llke i dont consider living legend, cherry blossom, nectar as part of bb at all) and as for me i cant say about album, that was done before 2020, that its compilation, but i mean we can't take away the definition of outtakes out of her projects it just.... doesnt feel right, and at the end there are known strict lists of outtakes that can be made based on known facts, and ye im a pure purist so thats only thing to do for me to make it a little bit more classified based on pure facts again

I think if you’re a purist, you wouldn’t try to separate her recorded (and unreleased) material into outtakes, really. I have things sorted by year and producer. If I knew exactly the dates and the sessions I would go as far as separating them by that as well. To me, that is the only concrete thing that works for Lana, cause as I said before… She likes to go back to things that were originally done for different projects and revisit them, which is why the leaks of even old material pisses her off so much.

 

The word “outtake” means that it was an actual track done and finalized for inclusion on a certain album. With that in mind, that would not really work for a lot of her unreleased songs in an effective way. We know now that the final Rick Nowels demo of Fine China was mixed and mastered for inclusion on UV. That makes it a LEGIT outtake cause it was actually mixed and mastered and was only removed at the very last minute along with Yes to Heaven. Everything else somewhat falls between Born to Die and Ultraviolence and it’s so hard to tell what they were actually meant for. Because they belong to multiple projects. 

[shadesofloveduthenandnow 20,612]

3 hours ago, lanaismamom said:

BOZ said here

  Hide contents

I'm not sure about YTH, but Fine China went as far as being mixed by Rob Orton and it's a Rick Nowels version. 

meant he that these tracks were mixed by rob orton with all uv tracks in april 2014?

I believe so

[lanaismamom 11,552]

54 minutes ago, The Love Witch said:

I think if you’re a purist, you wouldn’t try to separate her recorded (and unreleased) material into outtakes, really. I have things sorted by year and producer. If I knew exactly the dates and the sessions I would go as far as separating them by that as well. To me, that is the only concrete thing that work for Lana, cause as I said before… She likes to go back to things that were originally done for different projects and revisit them which is why the leaks of even old material pisses her off so much.

 

The word “outtake” means that it was an actual track done and finalized for inclusion on a certain album. With that in mind, that would not really work for a lot of her unreleased songs in effective way. We know now that the final Rick Nowels demo of Fine China was mixed and mastered for inclusion on UV. That makes it a LEGIT outtake cause it was actually mixed and mastered and was only removed at the very last minute along with Yes to Heaven. Everything else somewhat falls between Born to Die and Ultraviolence and it’s so hard to tell what they were actually meant for. Because they belong to multiple projects. 

yeah i kinda agree with 'definition of outtake' thing but idk for me separating songs just by year doesnt sit well i want to know for sure which album any specific song was intended for in the moment of its creation, means it would be just session or further outtake, and i just cant get what u trying to say with her revesiting her old stuff, how it could do classifying songs by album outtakes/sessions Hard? for me even if she picked to release yosemite in Chemtrails still means that yosemite belongs only in lfl, if i get it right

[ruined 1,686]

2 hours ago, lanaismamom said:

i dont consider reused outakes from the past records as a part of any album (llke i dont consider living legend, cherry blossom, nectar as part of bb at all)

I completely get what you mean and you're totally right I agree

BUT I also think that the three songs you mentioned fit BB perfectly (ignoring the fact that they're youtube rips)

She really knew what she was doing

Perfect choices