evilentity

Tim Cook: "The Apple Music team is proud to have worked with her from the earliest days of her career." Too lazy to screenshot it right now, but this is what Tim Cook was referring to: https://twitter.com/DavidNichtern/status/7313988887 Though this Rolling Stone profile says it was 2008. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lana-del-rey-vamp-of-constant-sorrow-74230/

The Trump comparison is really inadequate. While Trump is thus far merely a proto-fascist or wannabe fascist, Bolsonaro is a full-on fascist. A better comparison would be Duterte, with some Erdogan, Sisi, and Putin mixed in. It's really dire for Brazil. Things are likely to get really, really bad.

Paradise Yayo

This is absurd. An unconscionable assault on free speech. Not to mention further proof that Israel is not a liberal democracy. https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/New-Zealand-BDS-activists-ordered-to-pay-damages-over-Lorde-Israel-boycott-569194

I'd forgotten about this and stumbled on it while looking for an old tweet of mine about Taylor Swift, but to even my surprise asking Lana to cancel this performance wasn't even the first time I'd asked Lana to care about pro-Palestine activism: https://twitter.com/evilentity_/status/949634676032983041

Has she ever shared a lyrics credit before?

This is why you need a job where you sit at a computer with headphones all day.

Glad this date came and went without Lana performing.

Reminder that Ian Wolfson AKA Rex Arrow, who directed all of Mac Miller's early music videos, directed something than Lana was in (wearing the infamous scarf) with John Rectenwald AKA John Record, who's appeared on a few songs with Mac Miller. It's also crazy that the president of the United States got into Twitter spats with Mac Miller, but that's just the insane world we live in now I guess.

Bumping this for, oh, no particular reason...

I'm happy to absorb blame from people upset by her decision, but if anyone deserves credit it's @ahmadmerhebe on Twitter for starting a fan driven petition and CODEPINK for doing their own petition and traditional BDS groups for organizing aainst it. From Meteor's statement: "We do appreciate her for choosing meteor to help her score some press attention." Yeah, I'm pretty sure this wasn't a premeditated sequence of events. She pretty much pissed off her entire fanbase at some point along the way: Palestinians and pro-Palestine fans who were pissed she even scheduled the concert in the first place, Israelis and pro-Israel fans upset she canceled, and some apolitical fans upset by her "caving". Pretty sure nobody in the West would have given a shit one way or the other if this were true. Y'all can fuck right off. Seriously. Do you hear yourselves? Paraphrasing what I said earlier, anybody who would prioritize their fandom or others' fandom for an artist over supporting human rights is selfish. To turn around and call "selfish" people who actually do prioritize supporting human rights over people's fandom is disgusting. The fucking nerve.

I don't really hear that that much, but funny you should mention that song...

Robin Thicke: I know you want it Yeah, no. Tryna decide what's a bigger atrocity: performing in Israel or hanging out with Robin Thicke. The only reason Lana should ever hang out with Robin Thicke is to discuss questionable copyright litigation.

I have never said Palestinians are completely innocent or have no role in the violence. I have said that Israel uses a disproportionate amount of force. But to be honest, that doesn't even really factor into my support for Palestine and the BDS movement. The issue is the denial of basic human rights to an entire people. And those people are asking for a boycott to put pressure on their oppressors to end the oppression.

I have not used those words. I think disproportionate violence to perpetuate an apartheid-like state is enough on which to make the case for BDS without getting into whether those other terms apply. I just wanted to make that point. I don't think people really appreciate the frankly adversarial nature, when not distant, of the relationship Lana's management has historically had to the forum. Both the past and current administrator have had interactions with management, and I suspect Elle's relationship with them is warmer than Tiarnan's was, but I'm not aware of any moderators interacting with them. I have never had any contact with them anyway. If Ben is aware of me he probably hates me. I've frequently been critical of him. The truth is her management is extremely aggressive and has often made threats against the forum over ridiculous things. Behind the scenes I have consistently advocated against self-censorship or kowtowing to threats without a solid legal basis. @ me next time Where do you get off presuming to judge the sincerity of people's motives without basis? Especially people you know fuck-all about. FYI I've been very pro-Palestinian since I read Chomsky in 2005 if not before that. I legit confronted my congressman at a town hall years ago for having too pro-Israel a stance on his website. Believe it or not, I first learned that Lana was playing this show not from LanaBoards or any other Lana-related site, but from my mostly political completely non-Lana Twitter account under my real name because Glenn Greenwald retweeted a PACBI tweet about it into my feed. I'm not going to, but I could show you conversations I've had with other Lana fans evincing my pro-Palestinian views going back 6 years. I don't recall there previously being an occasion that demanded discussion of Israel/Palestine specifically, but my stance is quite obviously consistent with my record of policing Islamophobic comments. As far as my "sudden jurisdiction against her", anybody who knows a thing about me knows I've never been shy about criticizing Lana and it's not the first time I've criticized her politics or lack thereof. So it's not like I'm some posturing bandwagoner here or whatever you're trying to insinuate. I have genuine long-running convictions about this issue and her playing this festival genuinely bothers me. I find it bizarre (and depressing) that a number of people in this thread seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that someone might empathize with other people they have no "specific attachment to" aside from their shared humanity. Or if they did that they wouldn't if they didn't. Well said. I do not accept it. I don't know if protesting will move her, but I feel compelled to try. That's good historical background. I'd also recommend this section of this entry for more recent context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel#Human_rights_in_the_occupied_territories

I mean, everyone has a front hole...

As promised: And here's why her follow-up explanation on Instagram is also garbage. The middle paragraph, on its own, would have been about as good an explanation as possible (note the qualification) to give if followed up by concrete action, which is also a big if. But the opening "My views on democracy and oppression are aligned with most liberal views" is just meaningless. It doesn't say what she really thinks about anything and ignores the fact that many so-called "liberals" support the occupation of Palestine or have other hawkish views. The final sentence is contradictory bullshit. The action she is taking means she doesn't really understand what Roger Waters is saying at all.

I never said this was a high bar to clear, just that I clear it. But I have made reference to occupation, Israel's disproportionate use of force, the current apartheid-like situation, land dispossession, the fact that Palestinians in the occupied territories have no representation in the Knesset, successes of previous BDS movements, etc.

This goes too far for me. I believe Israel has a right to exist. But I believe Israel either needs to give Palestinians full autonomy and more territory or give them full citizenship in a greater state of Israel. And fundamentally, democracy is incompatible with being a permanent ethnostate or theocracy.

WHOA. Express acknowledgement. BTW a very Trumpian tactic to drop this to try to distract her fans from the Meteor Festival controversy. :troll:

1. Goodness gracious! How dare I use profanity to emphasize how trivial I find someone's desire to attend a concert to standing up for human rights! What a travesty! #CertainTravesties 2. Members of oppressor classes, particularly when they are propagandized by their government and state-friendly media, are often the last to come to terms with the reality and extent of that oppression. And if you're suggesting that my position on this issue is informed only by histrionic social media posts, that's funny. You forget I'm old and have followed this issue since long before social media existed and despite a historically strong pro-Israel bias in US media. 3. Forcing my opinion? How? I mean, I have every right to express my opinion as much as anybody else here. You say this as if I've somehow abused my mod powers to silence or punish differing views about this. I haven't. If anything, quite the opposite. Members have reported offensive posts in this thread that I think objectively warrant discipline, but I've recused myself and left them for other mods to decide. I will note it is funny how often on this forum accusations of "forcing" or "imposing" an opinion generally correlate with an inability to articulate much of a rebuttal. This is honestly hilarious. Your quotes in their original context look way worse and make you look like that much more of an asshole. If anything I did you a favor. Sigh, if I must. It's a strawman, on multiple levels, but here's one: Its implicit premise is that in the quote of mine it responds to I say people have to stop saying certain ideas. I don't. I merely politely asked people keep the plight of Palestinian victims in mind as they post. I literally say please. Let's see. What post of theirs did I quote and how did I respond to merit being called a "condescending asshole"? Oh. I merely mirrored their own words back to them. When people here forget Lana actually has fans in Palestine and the Palestinian diaspora. I find it funny how I'm being asked to educate others about the situation when I've referenced more relevant facts about the situation than most if not all the people commenting in this thread even though that hasn't been the focus of my posts and it's not my job to educate people. Again, this is an argument against performing other places, not an argument for performing in Israel. I wouldn't perform in Erdogan's Turkey either. But Turkey isn't an apartheid state denying basic human rights on the scale of Israel to half the population and I'm not aware of any mass popular movement on the scale of BDS there asking people to boycott, but if there is I'd honestly like to know.

Because there were more bad takes that you're allowed to quote in one post: It doesn't mean she 100% intends to support injustice and oppression. But her actions have that effect despite her intentions. It helps set a precedent though. And as one of the bigger artists on the roster the success of the festival could largely fall on her. Yes, some critics of Israel are motivated by antisemitism. And yes, there are many other bad regimes. And yes, there may be good arguments for not performing in some of them as well. But Israel is an apartheid state whose oppressed inhabitants are asking people to stand in solidarity and boycott and divest. That would be pretty hypocritical given her reference to Giuliani's "truth isn't truth" comment. This is moral abdication. Yeah, but didn't he produce Lorde's last album, who famously canceled her show in Israel? I don't want to "cancel" Lana. I just want her to cancel this show.

I wrote a long response to Lana's first shitty explanation on Twitter a couple days ago which I'll post when I get around to screenshotting it, but for now I'll content myself with responding to some of the many bad takes here: Yeah, call me when Palestinians in the occupied territories can vote for representation in the Knesset. Member of oppressor class in apartheid state asks that we "just put politics away" (i.e. turn a blind eye to the denial of basic human rights to others by that oppressor class) for just one second so they or other members of that oppressor class can attend a fucking pop concert. It's not about it being "war torn" or "dangerous". It's about occupation, the systemic oppression of Palestinians under an apartheid system, and the disproportionate use of force employed against resistance to that. I have zero respect for anyone who prioritizes their fandom for an artist over supporting human rights. I sympathize with Israeli fans who want to see Lana. I really do. But this is bigger than you or your desire to see one of your favorite artists. When people here forget Lana actually has fans in Palestine and the Palestinian diaspora. JFC. Aside from being insanely hypocritical and moving the goalpoasts, this is fucking vile. This might be an argument against performing in Turkey and/or Russia. It's not a good argument for performing in Israel. It's also an argument against nuance and the ability to make distinctions between somewhat repressive regimes and apartheid states. It's one thing to argue why it doesn't personally bother you. It's another thing to dismiss the concerns of others, some of whom are directly affected. I mean, if artists want to boycott the US for these reasons as a political statement more power to them. But the apartheid nature of the state of Israel uniquely warrants it. There is historical precedent for boycotts, divestment, and sanctions having an impact. And the people being oppressed are calling for it. Israelis are responsible for what their government does in their name and boycotts, divestment, and sanctions can be an effective way to put pressure on a populace to demand change from their leaders. But give me a break. Not being able to go to a Lana show is like the mildest form of collateral damage you can imagine.

It's not really my story to tell, but do y'all realize there are prominent members of this fanbase and this forum, among some of the most instrumental in the early development of Lana's fanbase, whose parents are Palestinian refugees dispossessed of their land? Please think of that before treating this issue dismissively.

That's really petty and disappointing. She's taking many steps backward in her personal growth on this.