LDR Album Process Discussion

[Embach 42,677]

I think that Lana is just cringing when she looks back at the Born To Die era (like when she mocked her Million Dollar Man performance in Banisters release's livestream). I don't really think she hates Emile's production that much.

 

Although what I have noticed that in BTD era performances (like Born To Die's performance in BBC Radio 1 Live Lounge and Radio's performance at The Scala Club), her band used the demo versions of those songs.

[Bluelake 2,891]

.

[Coloringbooks 14,016]

Most of the Born to Die album track demos washed the Emile Haynie versions with ease

 

Sorry but it had to be said. Diet Mountain Dew, National Anthem, TIWMUG, Lolita… whew!

 

The Flight's version of DMD is my favourite

 

[AntiToxicPill 2,144]

10 hours ago, americangothic said:

it'd be interesting to hear a Jack Antonoff/Drew Erickson (& co) updated take on 'Born to Die'

 

Seriously .

How ?!

[Veinsineon 76,899]

I love Emile haynie his little space owl sound is iconic.

 

he’s like the RedOne to Lana’s Gargar 

[blackenedrussianpoetry 2,456]

Could you imagine if Emile had his hands on Video Games… or maybe there’s a version of Video Games with him but he done it for fun? Who knows

[Bluelake 2,891]

.

[ultrabanisters 45,071]

i cant believe i didnt know she said that about my beloved baby this is what makes us girls

 

im glad emile did what he did to btd imo it wouldnt be as successful without his touch 

[mybluenectarofthegods389 275]

@Coloringbooks Do you know if the beautiful people demo 3 was ever considered for honeymoon?

[shadesofloveduthenandnow 20,610]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:39 AM, Jakk said:

Video Games (Emile’s Version) 

 

Do we know if Emile touched any outtakes?? Kinda Outta Luck, Serial Killer?? They need to leak! Along with Hollywoods Dead/Damn You final!

Last Girl on Earth? Velvet Crowbar? 

[spinmeround 1,195]

On 1/3/2023 at 6:48 PM, BlackoutZone said:

It was properly reworked yes

this is such an old comment my apologies, so does this mean there is an actual original 2013 version with new vocals and instrumentation?

[ivory almond 15,683]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:26 AM, BlackoutZone said:

I think it's time to talk about the iconic trio of UV outtakes - Yes to Heaven, Fine China & Your Girl. It's a twisted web and I'm not really good with phrasing and explaining such things so it might be difficult for you to understand everything (especially if you have no technical background on how songs are being produced), but I'll try to walk you through it all step by step and if something remains unclear I will try to explain it further!

 

Spoiler

 

These 3 songs were originally written and produced alongside Rick Nowels and his engineers back in late 2013. We first found out about their existence in 2016 when Eclipse obtained the demos and revealed the titles/snippets. They later happened to spread and leak becoming mysterious fan favorites and sadly as beloved and iconic in the community they are, all 3 are fake...
well, technically.

 

To understand why they are fake I need to give you a full breakdown of what happened.
It must have started with Eclipse getting his hands on an invoice from Patrick Warren who was responsible for recording and engineering Keys/Strings on some of the songs at that time. That listing apart from tracks that were released included Say Yes To Heaven, Fine China and Your Girl which have been fully unknown to the public. He contacts Patrick and using that info tries to get the demos from him, I assume under the suggestion that Lana is considering re-using the songs and tries to get the tracks/parts back. The thing is, Patrick is just someone who records his small part for the mix, he isn't actively working on the song as a producer so he doesn't really have access to all the material. Still though, he had some loose stems/sessions parts I assume, without properly bounced mix, he challenged himself to create mixes of all 3 that would be serviceable for that moment.

 

If you check the original files of all 3 leaked tracks, you'll find in the metadata that those demos were exported in Logic 10.2.2. That version of Logic Pro was released on March 8th, 2016 so any mix could not be older than that and of course the original ones were made in 2013. Not to mention the fact that Rick and his engineers work with Pro Tools, not Logic, unlike Patrick. But this goes even further. Patrick's available stems of the tracks were seemingly so incomplete he decided to create new production and structure for the songs making complete new versions that were unlike what Lana and Rick originally curated. He sent those back to Eclipse alongside the very incomplete stems.

 

This mess doesn't end here. You see Patrick Warren's job is to deliver the stems containing the new parts he was issued to arrange and engineer. Since he is often doing it independently of the rest, he adds a little bit of the song's intro at the beginning of every stem file he bounces so that when Rick receives it he knows how to place it in the mix alongside his parts. It's usually like 20/30 seconds and you can see what I'm talking about, because Eclipse shared some stems snippets from the files he received:
https://onlyfiles.io/f/e0236e30cb224f9e8618fe09ab0b9bc3
https://onlyfiles.io/f/ce703d3a5a204566bd31278eb667e6f7
Thank you @TheBoss for providing these to me

 

The first seconds here are the intros of real Rick reference demos, the latter parts however are already stems/mixes of what Patrick attempted to make in 2016. If you want some more closure, there is something @Say Yes to Heaven mentioned already - Eclipse must have received another pack of the same fashion later in 2016 of upcoming LFL track, Something Real (aka 13 Beaches). If you remember those times well, his exact teaser said "You took the.. #SR". This was most probably, because the singular stems he received as Something Real ALSO contained a few seconds of actual song at the beginning that happened to cut right after Lana saying "You took t..". In the full official credits you can see that Patrick is credited on 13 Beaches for "Waterphone", "Harmonium" and "Synthesizer".

 

Now circling back, while Fine China and Your Girl only had one mix leaked, Yes to Heaven also had this:

 

And this one is also fake, but it's technically closer to being a real thing than the Patrick mix. I don't know if this one was made by Eclipse or someone who got the stems from him, but this must have been made with filtered acapella of the Patrick Warren version, mixed with additional stems he provided and then layered with the looped guitar/drum pattern from the intro that I mentioned previously. But that guitar loop was literally a fundament of very first version of Yes to Heaven (unlike the Patrick mix that begins with strings) so you can imagine how it sounded based on this.

 

The first real version of Yes to Heaven that you have is the one leaked by Music Mafia which is a James Ford demo from late March/early April 2014. At that stage UV was shaping as an album, Rob Orton started properly mixing it and Lana decided to take last attempts to find the right production for the song by asking James Ford to give it a try. Sadly it also got discarded and at that point they just let go of the song (at least for that era).

 

The second real version of Yes to Heaven that you have is from latter part of 2014, 3:31 in length with leading production by STINT. Keep in mind though that while I refer to those versions as James Ford produced / STINT produced demos, they are all based on Rick's demos they got presented to work with. I think it's just easier to name them as such for clear sorting purposes. Even though the song was being worked on in both 2014 and 2015 they still failed to include it on HM as well.

 

It's fortunate for you that those happened to leak, cause Patrick's SYTH was the most different to the real demos from UV. Fine China is also pretty different, while Your Girl early demos (not the final though) are fairly similar to Patrick's mix. I mentioned earlier that both Fine China and Your Girl got mixed by Rob Orton alongside UV so they've been scrapped from the release on very last minute and unlike Yes to Heaven - ditched for good right after.

 

The weirdest thing in all this is that those quick Patrick Warren mixes are great... even though the mixing is clearly rushed and poor. The harmonica break in Yes to Heaven, the organs in Your Girl chorus, that stuff was never meant to be there, but hell it works. This sadly also means that if Patrick only sent those 160kbps mp3 files, the better ones don't exist.

 

That is all for now, unless @111 would like to now come forward and add something that I missed/got wrong. I also do not really believe that you didn't know the truth about all of this back then so I don't understand why you never revealed that the mixes aren't real. I think die hard fans deserve that kind of closure about some of the most iconic unreleased songs.

 

This took me years to figure out with massive help of someone who is also present on this very forum and I have mad respect for, thank you again!

 

 

 

flashbacks to when BoZ ate that one thing

 

we need someone to give an iconic spill like this again

[lanaismamom 11,544]

i dont think this topic need its own thread, but i do find it really interesting the 2012 sessions, i mean... after i saw these pics 
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

JFK, Starry Eyed started playing in my mind, and, goes a total speculation from me, but i found it really interesting how these songs were being created alongside other songs from Paradise, but these specific songs, like 

American (Demo)
Blue Velvet
JFK
Starry Eyed
Young and Beautiful (Demo)
Holywood
TV in Black & White
I Don't Wanna Go
Life Is Still Beautiful
Hollywood's Dead
Bel Air - ?
What's a Girl to Do - ?

feel very different from paradise that turned out to be, and plus they all are in the same soundscape and could be very easily composed into the one project, plus during the time of creation of these songs, that have that very vintage 50-60 feeling around it, lana was very inspired by looks photos of which i attached. so i thinking if that really is how the paradise actually started, because these sessions couldve really made a solid album, but it feels like it just simply was unfinished due to lana started to create songs with different sound, that is Paradise released version. just a speculation but it feels like another lost record, that i will try to make a concept of and see if something good turning out of that, but as for now i can definitely see the cohesivness that this project couldve had, does it have any sense?

 

[LBcita 279]

8 hours ago, ivory almond said:

 

flashbacks to when BoZ ate that one thing

 

we need someone to give an iconic spill like this again

minus him saying that Patrick Warren "decided to create new production and structure for the songs" and then the "legitimate" versions leaked and that was not true at all...though he did cover his ass by sprinkling that "I assume" in there every other paragraph but unfortunately the wikia will always be tainted by people taking this "idk tho" ass post as fact

[Dark Angel 202,411]

11 minutes ago, lanaismamom said:

i dont think this topic need its own thread, but i do find it really interesting the 2012 sessions, i mean... after i saw these pics 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

JFK, Starry Eyed started playing in my mind, and, goes a total speculation from me, but i found it really interesting how these songs were being created alongside other songs from Paradise, but these specific songs, like 

American (Demo)
Blue Velvet
JFK
Starry Eyed
Young and Beautiful (Demo)
Holywood
TV in Black & White
I Don't Wanna Go
Life Is Still Beautiful
Hollywood's Dead
Bel Air - ?
What's a Girl to Do - ?

feel very different from paradise that turned out to be, and plus they all are in the same soundscape and could be very easily composed into the one project, plus during the time of creation of these songs, that have that very vintage 50-60 feeling around it, lana was very inspired by looks photos of which i attached. so i thinking if that really is how the paradise actually started, because these sessions couldve really made a solid album, but it feels like it just simply was unfinished due to lana started to create songs with different sound, that is Paradise released version. just a speculation but it feels like another lost record, that i will try to make a concept of and see if something good turning out of that, but as for now i can definitely see the cohesivness that this project couldve had, does it have any sense?

 

 

you do have a good point that what we consider to be paradise outtakes did have a different sound/theme, it did seem very 50s/60s inspired and seemed like a more straight-forward continuation of born to die, as opposed to the more cinematic, esoteric, religious feel of paradise we have, but i feel like maybe she could've just been recording a lot of stuff with a variety of different themes/sounds and ended up going with something more cinematic and esoteric, we've known about body electric since the summer of 2012, she even performed it more than once before the release of paradise, she also mentioned gods and monsters a few months before the release of paradise, and who knows how early on the demo of cola was recorded

 

also, TV in black and white, hollywood's dead, and what's a girl to do are all from 2011 and are more likely to just be born to die outtakes, i don't think she revisited them for paradise

[lanaismamom 11,544]

Just now, Surf Noir said:

 

you do have a good point that what we consider to be paradise outtakes did have a different sound/theme, it did seem very 50s/60s inspired and seemed like a more straight-forward continuation of born to die, as opposed to the more cinematic, esoteric, religious feel of paradise we have, but i feel like maybe she could've just been recording a lot of stuff with a variety of different themes/sounds and ended up going with something more cinematic and esoteric, we've known about body electric since the summer of 2012, she even performed it more than once before the release of paradise, she also mentioned gods and monsters a few months before the release of paradise, and who knows how early on the demo of cola was recorded

 

also, TV in black and white, hollywood's dead, and what's a girl to do are all from 2011 and are more likely to just be born to die outtakes, i don't think she revisited them for paradise

yeah that is right we dont know much of origins of paradise released tracks, and neither for these songs that are jfk, starry eyed etc, its just interesting that these songs feel extra isolated from the paradise weve got

tv in black and white is from 2011 but it just feels so very aesthetically and sonically accurtare to these songs, and since we know there is a finalized mix of that song im interested when that was done, as for hollywoods dead, BOZ said that she actually revisited it in 2012 alongside damn you and possible a few other tracks, but by that time it was a re release of btd with outtakes that boz told us about, and i think the song is also sonically matches the vibe

[Bluelake 2,891]

.

[Strangelove 1,845]

She said Hollywood leaked with the wrong production. So I'm curious if that's the case for other songs from around that time. I mean What A Girl To Do has that Rick James sample so I doubt it fits in with these other dreamy songs. 

[Strangelove 1,845]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:04 PM, americangothic said:

Poor Emile, tho. I wonder if he's aware of how does Lana feel about his job on 'Born to Die' and the thing she's said about it . I remember a few years ago, on an interview with Courtney she low-key dragged him, and said he basically ruined the original 'Blue Jeans' with his production. But at least they're on good terms, so perhaps he doesn't care.

 

The thing is, whether she like it or not, Emile's touch is what made the songs as timeless as they are. People started to mimic Lana's sound from that era, especifically. But I get it, we all want to sound edgy talking down about versions of ourselves from the past. We grow up, she's in a diferent place now.

 

I'm pretty sure if she could, she'd re-record that album the way she wanted to sound like now. And as much as I'm a hardcore Emile stan, it'd be interesting to hear a Jack Antonoff/Drew Erickson (& co) updated take on 'Born to Die', as in Taylor's re-recordings, maybe with Emile on board, as he basically crafted that whole sound 

Can I get a link to that interview. Thanks. 

[palemoonbaby 15,106]

this was BTD sampler tracklist. i found it in thread from 2012/13

 

National Anthem (Nexus/Justin Parker)

Born to Die (Emile Haynie)

Live or Die (Jaz Rogers)

Hey Lolita Hey (Liam Howe)

Million Dollar Man (Chris Braide)

Video Games (Justin Parker/Robopop)

Paris (Guy Chambers/Liam Howe)

Puppy Love (Justin Parker)

Driving in Cars With Boys (Nexus)

This is What Makes Us Girls (Tim Larcombe)

Hundred Dollar Bill (Jayson Michael)

Are You Ready? (Eg White)

Diet Mountain Dew (Alexis Smith/Crispin Hunt/Mike Daly)

You Can Be The Boss (Alexis Smith)

Kinda Outta Luck (Alexis Smith)

Carmen (Justin Parker)

Put the Radio On (Biff Stannard)

Blue Jeans (Emile Haynie)"