Norman Fucking Rockwell - Post-Release Discussion Thread + Poll

[lanaismamom 11,538]

57 minutes ago, GeminiLanaFan said:

NFR, just like BTD, has this incredible feeling of « encapsulating the American culture » of this peculiar era, stepping a bit outside of Lana’s realm, into a larger scope, to tell the story of the decay of the US dream and American loneliness pre-pandemic. I guess it’s why it is still today considered her « best work » by critics. 
UV, HM and OB, although phenomenal, all lack that « time capture », concentrating on Lana’s story or getting into a certain vibe (although there are some « sprinkles » of postpandemic world in OB, it’s not as «present » as Norman or Born to Die, IMO). 

still a mediocre "lana" album
 

[Thats why they call me Dita 9,752]

47 minutes ago, Vertimus said:

I know that's the general, wide opinion of NFR and its 'vision,' but I don't see it. There's a couple very mediocre tracks, the awful 'Next Best American Record' redo, and 'The Greatest,' 'VB,' 'Hope' and 'MAC,' with 'Doin' Time' thrown in at the last minute, and so not really a part of the album's "vision." 

 

'Hope,' 'VB,' 'MAC,' and 'The Greatest' are all narrated from Lana's POV, so I don't see how she stepped outside of her "realm" or subjective world, or added commentary about loneliness or the decay of the" American Dream." 'Bartender,' 'Love Song,' and 'California' also told from her POV. Where is there a reference to the decay of the "American Dream"?

 

'The Greatest' is about the end of the entire world, not just America, and it's due to meteors striking the Earth while at least some people have been relocated to Mars. There's nothing in the song about the decay of America. And she's written about the end of the world before, as in 'Last Girl on Earth.' 

 

'Hope' is very personal, it's about her own madness or mental ill health, how is that a commentary on present-day society? Because some of the standards of 1950s America were constraining for women? But those particular constraints on women were destroyed by the cultural revolution of the 1960s. 

 

I find all of 'NFR' to be mediocre with the exception of 3 or 4 songs. The mawkish ending of 'How to Disappear' is embarrassing for a songwriter of Lana's stature, and she completely ruined 'Happiness is a Butterfly.' 

Who hurt you 

[Vertimus 9,547]

11 minutes ago, Thats why they call me Dita said:

Who hurt you 

You're projecting. 

[Thats why they call me Dita 9,752]

1 minute ago, Vertimus said:

You're projecting. 

Yes, maybe that’s the problem 

[taco truck 32,804]

26 minutes ago, Vertimus said:

Firstly, I didn't call "mac, vb, hope, and the greatest" mediocre; I said they were the exceptions to the mediocre songs. 

 

Secondly, I was an English major and am a published author, so I think I do know what a theme, metaphor, or trope is.  

 

Thirdly, I was born in the OC in Laguna Beach and know a great deal about California/West Coast culture, especially So Cal. 

 

 

Then how did you completely miss the entire point of the album? Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t about that. The analysis @PARADIXO made perfectly captures the themes of the album.

[Vertimus 9,547]

3 hours ago, Thats why they call me Dita said:

Yes, maybe that’s the problem 

There is no problem. Just perceptions and opinions. 

[GeminiLanaFan 48,862]

5 hours ago, Vertimus said:

I know that's the general, wide opinion of NFR and its 'vision,' but I don't see it. There's a couple very mediocre tracks, the awful 'Next Best American Record' redo, and 'The Greatest,' 'VB,' 'Hope' and 'MAC,' with 'Doin' Time' thrown in at the last minute, and so not really a part of the album's "vision." 

 

'Hope,' 'VB,' 'MAC,' and 'The Greatest' are all narrated from Lana's POV, so I don't see how she stepped outside of her "realm" or subjective world, or added commentary about loneliness or the decay of the" American Dream." 'Bartender,' 'Love Song,' and 'California' also told from her POV. Where is there a reference to the decay of the "American Dream"?

 

'The Greatest' is about the end of the entire world, not just America, and it's due to meteors striking the Earth while at least some people have been relocated to Mars. There's nothing in the song about the decay of America. And she's written about the end of the world before, as in 'Last Girl on Earth.' 

 

'Hope' is very personal, it's about her own madness or mental ill health, how is that a commentary on present-day society? Because some of the standards of 1950s America were constraining for women? But those particular constraints on women were destroyed by the cultural revolution of the 1960s. 

 

I find all of 'NFR' to be mediocre with the exception of 3 or 4 songs. The mawkish ending of 'How to Disappear' is embarrassing for a songwriter of Lana's stature, and she completely ruined 'Happiness is a Butterfly.' 

I have a lot to add to that but have a few minutes, so here are a few of my observations: 
It’s not so much that she doesn’t tell her own story but through her story, we get a glimpse of the times we are living. It probably was unintentional but still, I see those elements in there:

- title track: going out with a narcissistic man but she owns it: how many girls are living that, in the social media age? Same with the failed relationships depicted ln the album, although she wants her « love song ».

- MAC, Hope, HIaB and all the songs where she references her own sadness: the younger generations are not afraid as much to acknowledge their sadness/ melancholy / sad feelings.

- Doin Time is a 90s cover, a decade that inspires a lot this decade, culturally. 
- TNbAR is about creation, another trope that many of us are trying to explore, much more than passed generations. 
- There is still the hope of wanting to live in a better world, but that world is shattered in The Greatest, like you said. 

[Vertimus 9,547]

2 minutes ago, GeminiLanaFan said:

I have a lot to add to that but have a few minutes, so here are a few of my observations: 
It’s not so much that she doesn’t tell her own story but through her story, we get a glimpse of the times we are living. It probably was unintentional but still, I see those elements in there:

- title track: going out with a narcissistic man but she owns it: how many girls are living that, in the social media age? Same with the failed relationships depicted ln the album, although she wants her « love song ».

- MAC, Hope, HIaB and all the songs where she references her own sadness: the younger generations are not afraid as much to acknowledge their sadness/ melancholy / sad feelings.

- Doin Time is a 90s cover, a decade that inspires a lot this decade, culturally. 
- TNbAR is about creation, another trope that many of us are trying to explore, much Lorre than passed generations. 
- There is still the hope of wanting to live in a better world, but that world is shattered in The Greatest, like you said. 

But none of that is any different than what she did on all her earlier albums. 

[Future Jazz 9,167]

I definitely agree with @Vertimus: this album is not the social commentary people paint it to be. It’s all about her own life and it can be interpreted in relationship to modern-day society, just like any other album she made can be. There are a few references to the end of the world, but that’s really not enough to make it what it is considered to be. I think even if you tried, it’d very hard to point out even just a few “points” she makes in this album about society. The quality of the album is another question, I personally really like it

[Cherry Blossom 21,472]

to me nfr encapsulates the feel of modern america (more so the world, in my opinion as i’m not american) because the subject matter in the songs just reflects the shift in western culture over the last decade. yes it’s from lana’s pov, but the more conscious and educated lens she writes through on the record - in my opinion - sums up the change in attitudes western society accumulated by the end of the 2010s.

 

i mean, born to die was written from her pov but the commentary on excess, drugs, depression and rebellion was a universal experience for the youth at the time which were growing in subcultures across the internet - hence its popularity and solidification as the ‘american’ album of the last decade. 

 

contrast btd with the subject matter of norman and it reflects the maturity and growth of a generation, for better or for worse.

 

that’s my two cents

[PARADIXO 32,925]

2 minutes ago, Vertimus said:

But none of that is any different than what she did on all her earlier albums. 

 

I think the difference is that Norman Fucking Rockwell! was the ultimate version of her message. The one that mattered the most because it landed at the right time, a time where a lot of people resonated with her and her message. The only other time that this happened was with Born to Die, because it opened a place in music, songwriting and art in general for people who felt disconnected with what was "popular" at the time (EDM, high energy pop music). Norman Fucking Rockwell! totally opened (or rather contributed) a new conversation regarding the state of the world and culture. It really felt apocalyptic... and then came the pandemic lol.

2 minutes ago, Cherry Blossom said:

to me nfr encapsulates the feel of modern america (more so the world, in my opinion as i’m not american) because the subject matter in the songs just reflects the shift in western culture over the last decade. yes it’s from lana’s pov, but the more conscious and educated lens she writes through on the record - in my opinion - sums up the change in attitudes western society accumulated by the end of the 2010s.

 

i mean, born to die was written from her pov but the commentary on excess, drugs, depression and rebellion was a universal experience for the youth at the time which were growing in subcultures across the internet - hence its popularity and solidification as the ‘american’ album of the last decade. 

 

contrast btd with the subject matter of norman and it reflects the maturity and growth of a generation, for better or for worse.

 

that’s my two cents

 

exactly what i said

[Future Jazz 9,167]

2 minutes ago, Cherry Blossom said:

to me nfr encapsulates the feel of modern america (more so the world, in my opinion as i’m not american) because the subject matter in the songs just reflects the shift in western culture over the last decade. yes it’s from lana’s pov, but the more conscious and educated lens she writes through on the record - in my opinion - sums up the change in attitudes western society accumulated by the end of the 2010s.

 

i mean, born to die was written from her pov but the commentary on excess, drugs, depression and rebellion was a universal experience for the youth at the time which were growing in subcultures across the internet - hence its popularity and solidification as the ‘american’ album of the last decade. 

 

contrast btd with the subject matter of norman and it reflects the maturity and growth of a generation, for better or for worse.

 

that’s my two cents

but where do you see the educated nature of her point of view on nfr? i’m genuinely asking because i can’t see it

[Cherry Blossom 21,472]

2 minutes ago, Future Jazz said:

but where do you see the educated nature of her point of view on nfr? i’m genuinely asking because i can’t see it

I meant in terms of her lyrics being more wordy and diaristic

not educated as in woke but educated as in she went to school and found some big and obscure words and metaphors

[lanaismamom 11,538]

18 minutes ago, Vertimus said:

But none of that is any different than what she did on all her earlier albums. 

lol this  but as much as i dont like nfr it Just needed to be, unlike chemtrails and bb where cocc is nfr bsides and bb is ocean bsides, both are not very good ones

[Cherry Blossom 21,472]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:20 AM, HoneyViolence said:

Feel like I'm under the ocean while I listen to Venice Bitch.

Wait.

Did you know HoneyViolence is under the Ocean Blvd listening to Venice Bitch?

 

Omg…

[Mer 61,198]

10 minutes ago, Cherry Blossom said:

contrast btd with the subject matter of norman and it reflects the maturity and growth of a generation, for better or for worse.

 

 

In all honesty I see both Born To Die and Norman Fucking Rockwell to be tongue-in-cheek exaggerations of certain aspects of modern Western culture. 

 

On BTD, even the title itself seems to make fun of both the nihilism in American culture and the consumerism of drugs, glamor, etc. (I.e., you aren't born to live or born to succeed, you're born to live fast, consume as much as possible, and die doing so). The songs explore this teenage-fantasy-wasteland where a lot of life's problems can be escaped by having sex, doing drugs, and constantly living on the run. It's about the extremes of the excess in our culture. 

 

On NFR, the title is sarcastic. Norman Rockwell was an American propagandist who drew picturesque scenes of rural American life, and helped sell the idea of "the simple life" in suburbs and rural areas. Putting the "fucking" between his name expresses mockery and disdain of Norman and what he stood for. The songs themselves are softer, calmer, and the subject mature more introspective. The songs discuss the burnout caused by trying to create this perfect little suburban life for yourself, and in a way it echos the theme of BTD--in that whether you embrace the teenage-fantasy-wasteland of degeneracy, or try to embrace the Norma Rockwell suburban utopia, you still end up empty, alone, and craving something more concrete than either empty version of Western culture. 

[taco truck 32,804]

12 minutes ago, Future Jazz said:

I definitely agree with @Vertimus: this album is not the social commentary people paint it to be. It’s all about her own life and it can be interpreted in relationship to modern-day society, just like any other album she made can be. There are a few references to the end of the world, but that’s really not enough to make it what it is considered to be. I think even if you tried, it’d very hard to point out even just a few “points” she makes in this album about society. The quality of the album is another question, I personally really like it

I’m walking to work right now so maybe I’ll explain it more later, but I think you’re confusing political commentary with social commentary. I would not consider the album political. But the album is very much a social commentary. I would consider “a modern day woman with a weak constitution” the thesis of this album. Like @PARADIXO said, it’s very much about the modern day LA citizen. And I agree, many of her albums do this, but it’s a few songs here and there, the most important thing though, is even if you personally do not sense that in your own analysis, it is the actual concept for the album, and why the album is titled “NFR” and why the cover has LA burning in flames .

[West Coast 45,790]

A lot of fans romanticize the idea of NFR being this deep social commentary about the modern American society, as if most songs aren't mostly like ''I miss x, y and z''.

 

The only thing truly ''Americana'' about this album is the title itself, a direct reference to the epitome of Americana, Norman Rockwell himself--but the album has actually very little to do with him. 

 

This album is mostly about cali vibes and longing/missing a less than perfect relationship, or criticizing your lover, partner, hook up, ex. 

[littleredpartydress 49,852]

I ain’t reading all of this…

[Mer 61,198]

1 minute ago, West Coast said:

most songs aren't mostly like ''I miss x, y and z''.

 

Like this album is mostly about vibes and longing/missing a less than perfect relationship, or criticizing your lover, partner, hook up, ex. 

 

I think most songs are about the struggle of a young, modern day woman (with a "weak constitution") trying really really hard to create this perfect suburban life for herself and her partner(s), and continuously failing to do so and burning herself out in the process. So I can see both ways. As a criticism of the men around her, and of the picturesque version of domestic life she tries to conform to.